"Burning" a coin

[Tradedollarnut]

Seated dollar collectors know that the 1854 is a real tough date to find in mint state. But you wouldn't know it by looking at the pops. The coin shows 14 in MS63, 7 in MS64 and 11 in MS65 combined between PCGS and NGC. Doesn't look too tough? The thing is that this has always been a super tough date and there are large value jumps between grades. Bruce Amspacher tells of an MS65 that was submitted 6 times seeking an MS66. I'd be willing to bet a super nice 63 comprises at least half of the combined pop and probably the same for the MS64 as well!

 

Another coin I know of this occuring to is the 1843. The combined pop is 23 for MS64. NO WAY! I know of a coin that has been tried over a dozen times for MS65. This behavior has also occurred in the trade dollar series on the 1873-CC in MS62/3 and the 1878-CC in MS64.

 

Does this bother you as well? It really bugs me! When I have a coin and I know that it's significantly rarer than the pop reports because some bozo "burned" the coin with multiple submissions, it really drives me up the wall! I sure do wish there were a way to make the pop reports accurate again!

[LucyBop]

amen!

[Wihlborg]

Yes, it does bother me also, but unfortunately I don’t think the pop reports will ever be totally accurate as long as a holder can be cracked open. With the sometimes huge price difference between one grade point and another there will always be people playing the crack out game.

 

John

 

[gmarguli]

Honestly, not really. Would it be nice if they were accurate? Sure it would. They are not, so it doesn't matter anymore. The grading services don't care if they are accurate. They could have helped make them accurate, but they didn't. No big deal.

 

Perhaps if I purchased higher dollar coins it would matter to me more. However, I just assume the pops are wrong on the coins I buy and frequently don't look at them. In fact, I probably look at the pops after I buy a coin rather than before.

 

For high dollar coins people should look at recent auction appearances and dealer sales to get an idea of the actual rarity of the coin.

 

For lower dollar coins, people should just buy the coin if they like it and it is price in line with the market.

[Coinosaurus]

TDN-

 

Seems to me that this sort of noise in the pop reports is actually good for collectors such as yourself who know the "real" story. If one of these coins ever fell in the hands of a less astute dealer, you could probably rip it. Not that this scenario is that likely, there being so few of these to go around to begin with

[Oldtrader3]

I guess that auction appearances can be helpful, if the notations are accurate on prior auction sales for that coin. I know that in the Barber series coins, there are better dates that have low pops. (in the 70/90's) that almost never are for sale anywhere. It makes you wonder how many there really are.

 

NGC shows 58 total Pop. of 1913-S Barber Dimes in MS63 through MS65, but try and find one. Heritage has sold about (19) MS60-65, 1913-S's Dimes (15 Certified) since 1995. No way of knowing though how many were repeat sales. I suspect several (5-7, MS64-65 examples, maybe)were repeat sales. So maybe 8-10 were new sales of fresh coins. A MS64 PCGS/NGC example goes for about $500. Undervalued coin IMHO. Eight years with maybe a couple coins a year of MS63/65, 1913-S Dime coins sold in auctions.

 

No wonder the Guys on the other site are BXXXXXXg about Barber coin availablility, especially Barber halves, with are, in better dates, maybe 20% of Pop. compared to dimes..

[Hoot]

This kind of occurrence does bother me. Most people participating in the hobby are not aware of such carryings on and in some series it's nearly impossible to tell how much it happens. So, it simply adds a chaotic nature to the trade of coins that probably warrant a greater depth of consideration by serious collectors. In general, the population reports can be used as a guide to the likelihood of rarity. But with the degree of noise that such submissions cause, especially for rare coins, the usefulness of that guide declines significantly.

 

Hoot