Are collectors good Graders?

[currentcoin]

What do you think?

Here's what I think.

 

Can a true collector be good at grading coins?

Yes, collectors knows their coins inside and out.

They know the mintage, type, mint marks, maybe even

about the mint it's self, the processes, dies and the plancets.

But what about grading?

 

How about what it takes to grade very good or MS65?

 

I do not think that the two are compatible.

 

To be a good collector you need a passion for coins.

You need to see the beauty, feel the history, take pride in your efforts in the assembly of a collection.

 

Grading is or tries to be a technical study of coins, a study that encompass the look or appeal of the coin, but doesn't consider the beauty.

Counting the types, location and degree of marks, spots and wear. Without any consideration for the history of the coin's abuse.

And assigning a value to a coin as though it were just another item on the store shelf. With no pride gained from the effort.

 

Do you think you can or do both?

 

Glen

 

[Beijim]

I think the folks at NGC would disagree with you. From what I've seen, they're passionate about coins and take a great deal of pride in their work. And I suspect some of them collect coins as well.

 

Beijim

 

[Oldtrader3]

IMHO, the "True Collector" without expert grading skills is an oxymoron. A true Collector had better have some pretty sharp grading skills or they are going to be disappointed pretty early in the game. There is a lot of so-so material out there (some of it in slabs) and if you can't grade well, you are not going to end up with an optimal (for grade) collection. Then, when it comes time to sell, disenchantment will set in in fast and either you will learn to grade adequately or you will be out of the hobby pretty quickly, unless you have a reputable dealer buying quality for you.

 

Some great collections have been built by "acquirers" who had a terrific network of top dealers looking out for their interests. Most of us do not have that level of financial clout though and are more or less on our own, except with a couple dealers that we may do a lot of business with.

[truthteller]

Unfortunately, collectors are the worst graders when grading their own coins. There is too much attachment, and the collector always overgrades his own coins. On the other hand, if the collector has no interest in the coin, he/she can be objective and give an honest, arms length grade or opinion.

 

TRUTH

[Oldtrader3]

This is human nature. What I have is always better. This is ego not reasoning. But, when it comes time to drop the $5-18K for that Saint or Seated Dollar, Experienced, passionate collectors are pretty good graders or Darwinian forces would eat them alive!

[Hoot]

I have to say that when I became better at grading, I became a better collector, and so it goes...

 

I will agree with this: "collectors are the worst graders when grading their own coins." Once I have obtained my coin, I tend to look at its strengths, but the key here is the process of obtention. During that process, I try to be as critical and honest with myself as I can be. It doesn't always work, but it keeps me from buying many coins.

 

I always remember that someone is lining their pockets with my money if I buy a coin. This keeps my passions in check pretty well. And when it comes to dropping more than a few bucks, I am out to protect myself. I always ask, "can I live with owning this coin if it grades one or two points lower than I think it will?" This is a safety valve for me.

 

Grading takes tremendous time and process to learn. And serious collectors take the time to learn it, especially in their series of focus (painfully at times). It's important to the very survival of most serious collectors because of how driven they are to collect! And most collectors turn coins at some point to move on to something else or to upgrade. This can be deadly if one has bought poorly.

 

Hoot

[DonHeath]

Glen,

 

I take your point. I might find an AU58 coin more attractive than an MS63, or a lightly pastel toned MS65 preferable to a brilliant MS66.

 

That said, I don't think the desire to choose special coins for your collection necessarily precludes being able to properly grade them. Hoot said it very well, but honestly assessing your own coins is sometimes difficult. Often, I find I am sometimes more critical of my coins than should be.

 

One of the interesting phenomenons I observed in the grading class was that the collector participants consistently undergraded about 80% of the time. It seems they were more critical and selective when grading to their personal standard. One of the hardest things to learn is to grade a coin holistically. I know every mark and blemish on every coin in my collection. It is quite possible to forget how much eye-appeal and pop a coin has when you stare directly at a flaw, and lose sight of the coin. It's the old forest for the trees thing. Sometimes, looking at a coin long enough to memorize every flaw and seeing the coin under lighted magnification will forever prejudice you toward the coin. For me at least, I always try to view my collection as imperfect beauty, and celebrate each ones uniqueness.

 

 

[jtryka]

I agree somewhat with the idea that we collectors are bad when grading our own, I do admit that there must be some bias there just by human nature. But I think that there are some important things that really passionate collectors can do. First, they can look at the whole coin, and balance the ticky-tack look at each flaw with the overall eye appeal of the coin. Second, they can separate the grading of their coins from the reasons they own them. Let me provide a few examples of my own collecting.

 

For Saints, I started out not knowing much at all, barely able to tell and AU from an MS-65, but gradually I picked it up. After looking at so many, and buying so many I really do think I can grade this series pretty accurately. And I must admit, the professionals are right when they say that a good bit of it is "gut feel" and that it really only takes about 10-15 seconds to grade a coin. As I have become more familiar with the series, I find that in about the first 10-15 seconds, I can come up with a fairly accurate grade. It's when I dwell on the coin and spend even more time, especially with a loupe, that I get bogged down in the minute defects. I will admit that some are more challenging than others, especially where the coin is borderline. Now where the collector has an advantage is really knowing the series. For instance, I am familiar with some of the intricacies of the series that a run of the mill grader at a service might not know. For instance, I realize just how crappy most 1910-D Saints look. Very low levels of luster, but technically a nicely struck coin in most cases. A lot of the 10-Ds you see are technically graded, but woeful in the eye appeal department. In the same way we understand how hard it is to find a bad looking 15-S!

 

As for separating emotion from it, I guess that's a learned activity, but it can be done. For me, it took practice, and a little brutal honesty. Right now, there is only one coin in my collection that I truly believe is undergraded (and that only by 1 point). Everything else, I can see the reasons for the grade and can agree with the service that graded it. A big part of that is being comfortable with the reasons you bought the coin in the first place. I didn't buy my 1924 in MS-62 because I thought it was really a 64, but I bought it because it was a beautiful coin, and a lot prettier in my eyes than many higher-grade coins I've seen. I'm ok with that, since I am not hung up on registry points. I can agree that the coin is a 62, but boy isn't she a beauty! If you can separate in your mind the reasons you bought the coin, and you don't have to own the top graded coin, this becomes much easier to separate.

 

I know this was a little long-winded (a shock coming from me) but I really do think collectors can grade, and I think it is possible though difficult to take the emotion out of it, even for our own coins.

[IrishMike]

Sometimes we have to remind ourselves that a grade is someone else's opinion versus your opinion. How often in life do we change our opinions on things. Rare is the occasion that I have disagreed with the opinion rendered by one of the top tier services. I don't consider myself proficient in grading, the last bunch I sent into PCGS I set realistic expectations for the coins and they all came back the grade I thought PCGS would grade them. I was impressed with their grades. Now whether I think they were correct or not is another issue. They were very tough on the coins.

 

Changing one's opinion on something in my case at least almost demands an epihany of sorts and the uncomfortable admission that I was wrong. As a result I tend to undergrade many and overgrade a few. This means that I will always disagree with the services on some coins. I personally view this as an OK thing.

[DonHeath]

A big part of that is being comfortable with the reasons you bought the coin in the first place. I didn't buy my 1924 in MS-62 because I thought it was really a 64, but I bought it because it was a beautiful coin, and a lot prettier in my eyes than many higher-grade coins I've seen. I'm ok with that, since I am not hung up on registry points. I can agree that the coin is a 62, but boy isn't she a beauty! If you can separate in your mind the reasons you bought the coin, and you don't have to own the top graded coin, this becomes much easier to separate.

 

That should be embroidered and put on every collector's favorite coin album cover. Great post.

[true_grade]

It depends on what you are basing your grading standard on/from.

 

Before a coin becomes apart of your collection it usually belonged to someone else, therefore you had to grade it before you acquired it, so the being objective about your coins doesn't truly apply.

 

So to answer your question; Yes, a well educated and experienced collector can grade and be good at it.

 

[EVillageProwler]

Grading is a skill much like any other skill. With repetition, you can improve your skill in that area. It helps if you have a natural talent at it -- i.e., a good eye. Most collectors will be at a serious disadvantage to the typical successful dealer because the dealer, if successful, has seen many more coins and must've done something right...

 

EVP

 

[MikeKing]

I'm terrible at grading coins. I overgrade the one's I'm hopeful about (after months and months of thinking this 1873 CC XF 40 I had was an XF 45, I finally realized it looked like it just made the grade); or I undergrade...

 

I just can't figure out the MS66 MS67 and MS68 routine. (I look at a lot of these MS66 Morgans and I just wonder--is this really an MS66 or am I over-reacting) Sometimes I think I'm getting there but then step back in fear. I rely on both the holder and my impression, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a raw coin. I'd just be a nervous wreck over it!

 

Sometimes I'll look at a rare CC $20 double eagle graded MS64 and it has the color of xxxx and the rub of a low grade AU and I'll lose confidence in myself and the grading service at the same time.