Strategy for bidding in a live auction

[truthteller]

I stole this from the PCGS website listed by Singapore and thought it quite interesting:

 

 

First, for the avoidance of confusion, my question refers to seating location when you actually attend an auction - if you are participating by phone then where you sit becomes significantly less important.

 

I like to sit as far back in the room as possible, which seems to be the strategy favorded by every other human being on this planet, which results in auction companies renting large ballrooms at major hotels and then setting up 150 chairs in neat rows only to have all the participants cram themselves against the back wall like some kind of ivy.

 

On the other hand, sitting in the front row can be an effective initimidation strategy, allowing you to raise your hand as soon as a coin you want appears and then keep it raised continuously for 45 minutes for all to see as a signal that you are fully prepared to pay significantly more than the coin is worth (or, in fact, will ever be worth) so theres very little point in bidding against you. Of course that never really works.

 

Recently I've been seeing more people do the 'roving bid', where you hold your catalog open and then stroll around bidding as you go. This technique allows you to stand behind other bidders when necessary, while allowing you to rocket to the front of the room when appropriate.

 

Yes, roving definately seems best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-------------------------

Singapore

 

 

 

The reasons why most people sit in the back of the room is:

 

1) monitor the competition, see who's bidding and how high

2) dealers who have consignments will monitor the progress of the buyers

3) sometimes a bidder will have submitted prior bids, and if his/her prior bids are exceeded, they are able to continue bidding from the floor.

4) a bidder in front will have the advantage of being first on auction bidding, so the back room bidder knows who will bid against him

 

TRUTH

[MikeKing]

when I was much younger, I started to bid on a violin at a muscial instrument auction in NYC. I wanted it so badly that I raised my hand and kept it up the whole time these two guys at the other end of the room had a bidding war over it. I was totally ignored, so, somewhat embarassed, I eventually put my hand down and waited for them to finish. The minute the hammer was ready to fly, I raised a finger, and the violin was mine.

 

I have yet to actually attend a coin auction, in person. I can't wait for the day. So far, I just sit at my computer and refresh my screen every ten seconds, breathing heavily and worrying about what I'll find in the mail. Then, I keep upping my bid, if someone obnoxiously has the nerve to want the same coin. I keep doing this, of course, until my screen freezes or the internet site goes off line.

 

The other day, my computer malfunctioned. I gasped when it tried to load Windows in 'Safe mode'. The first thing I thought is my God, what if this happened the day of an auction? I look forward, someday, to actually being there.

[michael]

truth i think you are absolutely right

i think many sit in back as it is human nature as it feels safer!!

 

but also

 

to really guage and see who is bidding and paying what for what

and what specific bidders are specifically buying overall

 

also to see who their competition is for the coins they want to buy

and how much they are willing to pay

 

watching what bidders are paying and buying can create many opportunities for other collectors and dealers in the room!

 

 

sincerely michael

[Higashiyama]

It has been about five years since I have been to a live auction (other than by phone), but I like to sit near the middle of the room, but on a far edge. That way, without being to instrusive, you can sit sideways and watch all the action.

 

By the way, the first auction I attended was in 1971, and it was a somewhat stuffy affair -- it seems that thing have lightened up since then.

 

 

(PS - and veering off topic, at that 1971 auction, a complete 5 piece Pan Pac in metal frame sold for $ 11,500)

[tw3cn-migration]

Most bidders at live auction are dealers.

 

I read once, and my experience says, that a collector can beat a dealer almost

every time because the dealer has to mark the coin up to sell.

 

A collector by being noticed should do well at auctions (absent other collectors).

 

This definitely did not hold up at CSNS.

[BankNote1]

I also have noticed how people seem to be holding up the back wall of the auctions. I myself like to sit in the middle to the front, I don't like to see who I am bidding against...

[truthteller]

Over the years, dealers and collectors have never noticed me bidding. Then about 5 years ago, several coin dealers would bid against me on an ongoing basis, whether it be a cheap coin or an expensive one. I recently began to be aware that a few dealers would stare at me while I was bidding, putting down their paddle as I did or raising their paddle when I did. I figured they knew the material I was buying was nice, and wanted the coins for upgrades. So now, after everyone is done bidding on a coin I would like to own, I raise my paddle one to two increments before my max. and then bow out or own the coin. Works about 75%, which is OK for me.

 

TRUTH

[Legend-migration]

In the end, it does NOT matter where you sit (except that the auctioneer has a clear view)!

 

People will execute bids regardless.

 

For me, I just like sitting in a place that has a table and easy in easy out while the sale is going on (usally the last row of tables).

[true_grade]

When attending auctions with coins (not coin auctions), I make sure I'm noticed and that I can see everyone who is bidding (I stand (or turn my chair) at an angle at the rear side so I can see faces and read body language). I hand my biz cards out to them and let them know that I also have some nice items with me if they would like to purchase better that what they are currently buying. I can also pick-up leads for buying coins and it lets me see what coins are "hot".

 

Other than for this purpose (advertising), I could care less about the crowd, I just want to make sure the auctioneer or their helper(s) can see me so I get my bids noticed.

 

Ways to distinguish yourself...........wear a suit and or tie (brightly colored)....hat......carry a briefcase.....bring a very attractive female cohort dressed to attract attention.........bid loud (if voice bidding)....don't be bashful. You will notice that after awhile, you will be looked at first and all the while during an item's auction.

 

 

Auction tips:

 

Bid very slowly.....don't get caught up with "bid fever". Auctioneer’s want fast paced bidding!

 

Don't think just because someone else is bidding on it, that it's a good coin. If you are bidding against a “hole filler”, then market price usually means nada to them. Examine, examine, examine and then examine again. DON'T ever take an auction's word/description on a coin. I will pre-grade, then sit down and look at my want/need/price lists, then decide which coins are worth bidding on, then give them another once over.

 

I have picked up numerous coins that were "misdescribed" at a fraction of their actual costs, because folks rely on the auction house's description.

 

As for the "coin only auctions"..........you must be at the TOP of your game in "coin education" to compete here. These "boys" are buying a coin; not there for a competition. Remember, you’re there to buy a product, don't let it be personal; you'll only lose money if you do.

 

Sorry for the long post, I could add even more.

 

 

 

[true_grade]

Over the years, dealers and collectors have never noticed me bidding. Then about 5 years ago, several coin dealers would bid against me on an ongoing basis, whether it be a cheap coin or an expensive one. I recently began to be aware that a few dealers would stare at me while I was bidding, putting down their paddle as I did or raising their paddle when I did. I figured they knew the material I was buying was nice, and wanted the coins for upgrades. So now, after everyone is done bidding on a coin I would like to own, I raise my paddle one to two increments before my max. and then bow out or own the coin. Works about 75%, which is OK for me.

 

TRUTH

 

Just bring along a friend that you can "signal" to do your bidding for you.

You might pick up more coins this way if these "others" see your not interested in the coin.

[gmarguli]

I usually like to sit in the very back. Easy access in and out. You can get up an leave without blocking anyone or asking people to step aside.

 

You can watch to see who is bidding - this is good for bidding out of spite.

 

If someone wants to see you they have to turn around and that gives you the easier opportunity to stare them down.

 

You can also take 2-3 chairs and spread your stuff out. If someone complains to you, just point them to the empty seats up closer.

[Legend-migration]

Here is a tip about auctions: If it is a major sale, most dealers like myself will execute our bids-period. So it doesn't matter where you sit, how YOU bid, or anything else. Its our day job to get the coins! I really don't chase collectors-and I do NOT know of any major dealers who do (their bidding levels are well established BEFORE a sale). ALso, you have serious book bids, live internet bids, and my worst nightmsare-PHONE BIDDERS (who usually ARE the ones to blow everyone away) to contend with.

 

I know when I'm zoned in, I rarely get out bid. Last week at Stacks, the ONLY time I'd lose, is when I felt a coin went way beyond stupid (like the $1 1882 PCGS PR67 at $45,000.00+15%).

 

The way the market is today, the top notch coins are commanding extreme prices and unless you want to own it at any cost, you may not be able to buy it (unless you break somes arm in the room or cut the phone cord). I love that icon!