Grading Subjectivity

[Oldtrader3]

The attached 1934-S Peace Dollar has been bugging me for about all of the 5 years that I have owned the coin. The scan is a very close likeness for surface marks and color (3600 DPI). The coin has never been dipped and therefore the luster is peeking out from under the white bag storage patina, but it is there! Almost all legit, bag stored (none-dipped Peace Dollars) have this patina. I can not believe the grade (MS62) that PCGS gave this coin. They never looked through the superficial bag toning!

 

I will be fried in hell (probably will anyhow, eventually) but I am not going to dip this coin (!!!!) just on principle. IMHO, it is a legit select++ Peace dollar.

 

We are talking $1000+ pop per grade here and this is, in my opinion a MS64. Let's hear your opinions.

[Oldtrader3]

Here is the reverse (attachment) for clarity.

[gmarguli]

If the coin truly looks like the pictures, then MS62 seems harsh. There is a fair amount of marks on the reverse and the coin seems a little softly struck (even considering the typical strike for the date/mint), but MS63 seems like a no-brainier and MS64 is not at all out of the question.

 

Maybe the submitter caught PCG$ on a bad day? Try sending the coin to NGC or ANACS or even back to PCG$.

 

Never assume that the grade the service assigned a coin is the actual grade.

[Hoot]

I'd have to agree with Greg on this one Charlie. I'd say the coin screams 63 with a solid shot at 64. The subjectivity for me lies in the position of the noticable nicks on the eyebrow, cheek and neck of Liberty, as well as her hair. On the reverse, there are only a couple of nicks - one on the wing of the eagle and a couple close together (as if one) near the tail but apparently in the field. Now if a person were bothered by those nicks, or if a grader was feeling picky, I could see the call for 63. But what would push this coin to the high end for me would be the toning. Peace dollars that are original in all of their surfces like the one you have are rare. Most have had the brillo after them at one time or another, and most flashy coins have been dipped recently. Hard as hell to find one that shows the kind of originality that yours shows. So, without being able to hold the beastie, I'd say 63++, perhaps 64.

 

Thanks, nice coin. Send it to NGC.

 

Hoot

[currentcoin]

I'd say MS64 looks good

Glen

[Beijim]

This seems like a really nice coin. If you feel that removing the few orange toning spots would improve its eye appeal, I'd suggest sending it to the folks at NCS for an evaluation. The worst that happens is they advise you to leave it alone. Removing those irregularities, however, might make the appearance even more desirable.

 

I agree with you about dipping it - I would not.

 

Beijim

 

[truthteller]

Unfortunately, I agree with PCGS. The Peace dollar series is the most difficult to grade, especially when trying to get an MS65 from the grading services. After years of grading Peace dollars, PCGS would skew the grading of them and I had to 'relearn' how to grade Peace dollars. In fact, many Peace dollars I would used to called MS66 are PCGS64. That's the way it goes. I have sent in several screamers, common to rare date and nothing higher than MS65 on the commons and MS64 on the better dates.

 

TRUTH

[braddick]

I know you don't want to hear it, but I'd have NCS currate it and watch it go in an NGC MS64 holder- and rightiously so.

[BillJones]

The scan makes this coin look a bit "washed out" with very subdued luster. If that is a true representation of how this coin looks, I can see why it got an MS-62.

 

Coins for few marks for subdued luster get low grades from the services. I have seen coins with marks galore that were very bright, which recieved a point or two higher than I would have given them on the MS scale.

[true_grade]

Without holding the coin, I would have to agree with a 62; at the very best a 63.

[coinman1794]

From the scans, that coin looks like a 64 to me. I've seen 65's with worse surfaces. The luster may be subdued, but even then, it would probably be a 63, and, we can't tell just how subdued the luster really is from the scans, anyway.

[BankNote1]

We can guess at the correct grade all day long but without actually seeing the coin in person it is only a guess. Although, I don't see why you think you need to dip the coin to get a higher grade? I might send the coin to NGC and see what they said!

[Oldtrader3]

The problem is my scanner. I have attached a MS65 Peace for comparison and believe me, the 65 has beautiful luster all day long.

[truthteller]

You can't compare a 1935 with a 1934S. It's like saying a 23S nickel is the same as a 1938D. Each mint has different characteristics. The Peace dollar coin itself has very shallow surfaces and wide open fields, thus the coin with show up with the slightest nicks, scratches or weakness much more readily than morgans. In addition, the series didn't circulate with the same strength as did the morgans. A lock MS66 Peace dollar will be graded more like an MS64.

 

TRUTH

[Elcontador]

The services, especially PCGS, declared a jihad on Unc. coins with subdued luster, or that appear washed-out. I know nothing

about Peace $s, but with no offense intended, this coin looks washed-out. I had a Walker whose luster was diminished by a light layer

of a sulfur compound & after a dipping, it became a wonder coin.

[carterhaines-migration]

This coin is nice, but it lacks too much luster (except in the middle on the reverse) in my opinion. I disagree with a MS-62, but I disagree with a MS-64 almost equally as much. An MS-63 would suit this coin well.

[paigow_johnny]

Agree with most above. Tough series to grade. Not enough booming luster and not a sharp enough strike for a 64....I would say 63.

[Oldtrader3]

Braddick: I believe that you have proposed a good solution. Send it to NCS and let them find the underlying luster and deal with the few orange spots. I honestly (after 35 years of grading Peace Dollars) think that the coin is a MS63+ ringer, maybe (on a good day) a '64. I certainly am not an infallible grader and Peace Dollars have a way of fooling one.

 

The way that the Big 2 are grading dollars and gold now, it might swing a '64. However, I would be very happy with a MS63. The '34-S is normally not a high luster Peace Dollar anyhow. It is more like the 1924-S (see scan of MS64) dollar in luster (with a better strike).

 

Please keep in mind that these are natural (out-of-the-bag) naturally toned "S" Peace Dollars that have not been dipped, stripped and whipped like 95% of what you see! It is one of the great oxymorons in this hobby that you have to surface erode (damage) a "S" Peace Dollar (dip it!) to get a good grade!! A natural (White Oxide) Peace Dollar will get sucked down by Graders every time. It is as though their eyeballs only focus 2 Nano-inches deep.

 

This is my personal rant for May!