Why are coins bodybagged because of a scratch?????

[MikeKing]

Maybe this is a 'stupid' question, but I'm stupid, what can I tell you.....

Why are coins bodybagged for a scratch? Why aren't they just given a lower grade?

 

Michael

[EZ_E]

I asked this same question about a bust half but never got a reply. Looking forward to what people have to say about this topic.

 

[Hoot]

I think this is a good question. It's all a matter of how a TPG considers a coin a "problem coin." Then it's simply a matter of definition and choicefulness about not BBing problem coins. Nothing more or less than that.

 

I think that the TPGs should all use a relatively exacting form of net grading. When possible, assign a details grade to their best estimate of the "exact" grade, then net grade it to a numerical grade according to their estimation of the severity of the problem. When an "exact" grade is not estimable, then they could revert to a categorical details grade followed by a numerical net grade. To do otherwise is chicken [embarrassing lack of self control].

 

Hoot

[TomB]

What really bothers me is that there is no consistency. Sometimes a coin with a major scratch is holdered and other times a relatively minor scratch ends up precluding it getting slabbed. As long as the scratch is contemporary with its circulation then I have no problem with it.

[James_OldeTowne]

Sometimes, they are merely given a lower grade, if the scratch isn't too awful. But as to why they are bodybagged, consider this scenario. Suppose a coin grades MS-69 by account of no wear, fantastic luster, pristine surfaces, strike, lack of marks, except for one thing: it has a scratch completely across the obverse.

 

So, what does it grade now? MS-68? It'd be tough to call something MS-68 with a big scratch. MS-63? Here again, it would be difficult to convince someone a coin is "choice" with a big scratch. Can it even be called UNC (MS-60) at all anymore, considering that it must have circulated in order to acquire the scratch? Then again, does AU-50 really make sense? After all, "AU" means it has wear, but the coin in question has no actual wear. I think you see where the confusion might come in.

 

For commercial grading, I personally agree with the principle of no-grading coins. Most coins fall within average standards for their grade, but when there's something really outstanding in either direction, that causes a problem. A scratch is a huge negative. Conversely, wild, original rainbow toning is a huge positive, so it might be said that every coin with some extremely positive attribute should also be bagged, basically for being "too nice" for the technical grade.

 

However, EAC standards take into account all negative aspects, including scratches, and thus an EAC grade would be assigned to a scratched coin. Where technical grading is concerned, I also agree with this principle.

 

The difference is that certified coins (in theory) are supposed to trade on a sight-unseen market. So if a net-grade of, say AU was assigned, you would be expecting a coin that resembles the typical AU, not a coin that is "MS-69 scratched".

 

That's just my 30 seconds worth on the subject....

 

James

[kryptonitecomics]

Interesting question and one I asked my self when I purchased this coin......the scratch or scratches are so minro for a coin that is 186 years old it boggles the mind

 

 

It's not like someone carved their initials in the coin with a knife or something....I even wondered if I cracked it out would NGC grade it or bag it? I will assume bag job but really.......how bad a problem coin is this....I think it looks great and for the price I paid.......I'll buy all the problem coins I can get that look like this

[michael]

how about a proof coin with a STAPLE scratch?/

 

many are holdered

 

it all depends on the look of the scratch and the subjective nature of grading

[physics-fan3.14]

I've got to say, that is the nicest VF-20 I've ever seen. ^ If those scratches are really bothering you, I could take it for you. You know, just to help you out.

[michael]

and it is impossible to answer every coin has to be seen in hand to access

 

and again combined with subjective grading

 

many are liner at best one day they get holdered the other not and visea versa

 

for me if it is well hidden and not too objective like a staple scratch and the coin without the scratch is proof 66+ then i can see a proof 64 but nothing better than proof 64

 

it all depends on the look of the coin at different angles

 

and eaxh coin needs to be judged on a per coin individual basis and again it is a highly subjective process

 

which creates a hugely arbitrage profit basis for thos erunners at the bopurse buying up all anx holdered problem coins and breaking them out resubmitting some to other services and putting the rest on sleezebay

for a handsome profit

 

coins is capitalism in its rawest form

[kryptonitecomics]

Yes I was crushed when I had to pay VF money for this carved up turkey

 

 

 

 

[IGWT]

What scratch?

 

[Ed Daggett]

Lou, I know you are not a DOCTOR, right?

[HaydenTubbs]

 

 

 

 

Looks cleaned

[IGWT]

Lou, I know you are not a DOCTOR, right?

 

Of course you know that. I don't even qualify as a nurse.

[jtryka]

I recently posted a 1913-D Saint I purchased for a little over melt. The reverse had a major scratch, and the former owner had it in an ANACS net graded holder, but cracked it out and submitted it to NGC, who bodybagged it (hence I bought it raw). This coin is clearly beyond scratched, and is damaged, so I can see the bb. For others, I think it might be a matter of degree. Kryptonite's bust half seems like is shouldn't have been net graded from the photos, as to me, scratches on circulated coins (especially aged ones) are less of an issue than scratches on modern high grade coins. So, scratch a proof gold eagle and you expect a bb, scratch a VF bust half, and your chances are better of getting it slabbed.

 

Here is my BB scratch:

[kryptonitecomics]

 

 

 

 

Looks cleaned

 

I am sure it's been dipped in the past.....but it has no cleaning lines and still possess some mint luster. All and alll very attractive in hand....I'll let you see it the next time we go to a show. Besides....if it was cleaned to any great extent you can believe ANACS would have noted on the holder....Cleaned, Scratched.

[supertooth]

Well, At least for NGC---They will deduct points for some scratched coins but still slab them. I have an 'original' 1919 Walker in XF45 technical grade that NGC lowered 10 points for the vertical scratch. You could not see it with the naked eye. But, then again, I have a 21D Walker that has been BB twice by NGC for an horizontal scratch---again, the scratch cannot be seen with the naked eye. So I guess it is a matter of subjective grading. Following on James' thinking----A good reason for ANACS is that they will both slab scratched coins as 'scratched' with a net grade. But they will also just lower the grade like NGC did with my 1919. I know this to be true because that very same 1921 D Walker had been in a Fine12 ANACS holder while the technical grade for the coin is easily a VF20. So---I guess the whole thing comes down to what the graders see and how they personally feel about what they do see. It is SUBJECTIVE grading. Bob [supertooth]

[HaydenTubbs]

 

 

 

 

Looks cleaned

 

I am sure it's been dipped in the past.....but it has no cleaning lines and still possess some mint luster. All and alll very attractive in hand....I'll let you see it the next time we go to a show. Besides....if it was cleaned to any great extent you can believe ANACS would have noted on the holder....Cleaned, Scratched.

 

Not always...

 

 

 

[kryptonitecomics]

Why not...I have seen many ANACS coins listed with multiple defects including Scratched and cleaned? Why would they only note 1 problem if a coin has two or 3?

[TomB]

Somewhat off the topic of the thread, but I agree that your CBH looks cleaned, though you have the coin in-hand and say it has no hairlines. If that is the case then the coin has had a major dip in the past and, in my opinion, that is more of a problem than any minor scratch it has.

 

Sorry.

[kryptonitecomics]

Somewhat off the topic of the thread, but I agree that your CBH looks cleaned, though you have the coin in-hand and say it has no hairlines. If that is the case then the coin has had a major dip in the past and, in my opinion, that is more of a problem than any minor scratch it has.

 

Sorry.

 

Don't be sorry I like the coin and I know that white busties that are circulated have been dipped for sure since they usually take on the gun metal gray or darker toning. I thought about putting the coin in an album etc to let it get some color but I kind of like the light color and great details so I may just leave it as is.

 

I still don't know why ANACS would not denote cleaned on the holder along with Scratched as I would think a dip job would certainly qualify as cleaned on a coin like this.....but again their are no hairlines and the surface looks nice outside of the small scratches so.....maybe that the answer?

[midwest]

Why not...I have seen many ANACS coins listed with multiple defects including Scratched and cleaned? Why would they only note 1 problem if a coin has two or 3?

 

Now they only list one defect.

[kryptonitecomics]

I guess the problem now is how do I know when this coin was slabbed....if the coin has been in this holder for 5 years as an example than I can't see any reason it wouldn't have both flaws noted. Again we can be certain the coin was dipped as Busties don't look like this coin.....but I have a feeling that the lack of harilines is why there is no notation of the coin being cleaned. Would NGC or PCGS grade the coin problem free........I think I would have a better chance of getting elected president

 

I am not defending the coin.....it's not problem free but my point was that I don't agree and appearently others don't either with the notion that a coin of this age with those tiny scratches should be bagged for scratches........but it desn't matter what I think about their policy......I paid $85 for this coin and it was worth every penny

[midwest]

I guess the problem now is how do I know when this coin was slabbed....if the coin has been in this holder for 5 years as an example than I can't see any reason it wouldn't have both flaws noted. Again we can be certain the coin was dipped as Busties don't look like this coin.....but I have a feeling that the lack of harilines is why there is no notation of the coin being cleaned. Would NGC or PCGS grade the coin problem free........I think I would have a better chance of getting elected president

 

I am not defending the coin.....it's not problem free but my point was that I don't agree and appearently others don't either with the notion that a coin of this age with those tiny scratches should be bagged for scratches........but it desn't matter what I think about their policy......I paid $85 for this coin and it was worth every penny

 

I was simply stating now they only list one problem. Personally I think it's a nice coin and feel bad for making you type all that

[kryptonitecomics]

I think you bring up a valid question for me which is....when was this coin slabbed?

[HaydenTubbs]

Why not...I have seen many ANACS coins listed with multiple defects including Scratched and cleaned? Why would they only note 1 problem if a coin has two or 3?

 

Well regardelss of their current policies,I've noted coins in older slabs which were denoted,say scratched-when they were really cleaned. I don't know if it might have been a labeling error or what...and the there have been a few times where I've seen large cents labeled as being damaged but failing to mention corrosion,etc...

[MAULEMALL]

DUDE I have an 1827 that could go as the twin sister to yours........Same net grade....

 

I paid $25.00 ..........It is one of my most favorite coins.....

 

 

I am not sure I'm happy now that you are letting everyone in on the secret...

[kryptonitecomics]

$25.....I hope this wasn't recently or I am buying from the wrong dealer

[MAULEMALL]

I got it off of eBAY 4 Years ago........Heritage was dumping a lot of coins at the time.

 

 

I had no clue I had won.

[truthteller]

Hey Maulemall. Where have you been? What's the scoop?

 

 

TRUTH