Ebay Hypothetical !!!

[TerrapinWill]

lets say you bid on an auction on Ebay because you really like the coin that is pictured. As you look closer at the auction, you notice the coin pictured is not the date that is listed in the auction. There are still a few days left, so you email the seller and ask him, "Is the coin picutred in the auction the coin high bidder will get?"

He replies "yes". You bid on the coin and win. You pay. 6 days later you receive the coin and indeed it is the coin pictured, as promised, which is worth approximately 20 times what you paid.

 

What do you do?

[HaydenTubbs]

Relist it on eBay when I get it.

[TerrapinWill]

So there is no ethical obligation to tell the seller about his error in the listing.

[HaydenTubbs]

No,now if the seller was to see the listing error he could pull the auction before it ended.If he doesn't he has to follow through with the sale regardless of the listing error.

[rexcat]

So there is no ethical obligation to tell the seller about his error in the listing.

 

Absolutely not, you even gave the seller a chance to notice his mistake by asking your question.

 

Fools and their coins are soon parted.

[TerrapinWill]

This happened to me about a year ago....and after reading the ethics question about the fella that bought the lincoln cents from the dealer, it reminded me of my situation.

[IGWT]

This question isn't even a close one. The seller made a clerical mistake when he listed the coin. You wrongly took advantage of the situation.

 

Asking the seller, "Is the coin pictured in the auction the coin high bidder will get," seems less an attempt to advise him of the mistake than a way to protect yourself in the event that you received the coin described instead of the coin pictured. Why didn't you simply tell the seller that the date in the auction title does not match the date of the coin?

[michael]

 

Re: Ebay Hypothetical !!! [Re: TerrapinWill]

 

 

 

This question isn't even a close one. The seller made a clerical mistake when he listed the coin. You wrongly took advantage of the situation.

 

Asking the seller, "Is the coin pictured in the auction the coin high bidder will get," was not an attempt to advise him of the mistake. Instead, it was a way to protect yourself in the event that you received the coin described instead of the coin pictured. Why didn't you simply tell the seller that the date in the auction title does not match the date of the coin?

 

sleezebay sellers and now buyers

 

you gotta love them

 

honesty integrity and fair play

[EZ_E]

Although you did nothing legally wrong it was still, nonetheless, morally wrong. I stick by IGWT's judgement on this one.

[TerrapinWill]

Wow....I really feel bad now........

[EZ_E]

Wow....I really feel bad now........

 

OK, group hug!

[TerrapinWill]

Not only did I give this person an opportunity to correct a mistake, I also gave them an opportunity when the coin pictured was the on ethat arrived. I told the seller the date and mintmark of the coin rec'd and said I had no problem keeping it. He never replied.

 

Which brings me to the underlying point.....why is it always buyer beware, but never seller beware. Anyone with any knowledge would have picked up the error either time it was pointed out. My guess is this person did not know what he had. I rec'd postive feedback after both emails and my posting of positive feedback.

 

Not only do I not feel "morally" worng, but think I went above and beyond what was required.

[TerrapinWill]

This question isn't even a close one. The seller made a clerical mistake when he listed the coin. You wrongly took advantage of the situation.

 

Asking the seller, "Is the coin pictured in the auction the coin high bidder will get," was not an attempt to advise him of the mistake. Instead, it was a way to protect yourself in the event that you received the coin described instead of the coin pictured. Why didn't you simply tell the seller that the date in the auction title does not match the date of the coin?

 

hey, by the way, thanks for assuming without asking.

[EZ_E]

I can clearly see your point but it is still justifying the situation. I don't think that it is a big deal and you did go the extra mile somewhat but if you wanted it 100% on the up and up you would have pointed out that the coin shown is worth much more than the coin listed. One can justify any deed in the world. Perhaps I would have done the same thing that you did but remember that all cons work on greed and it could backfire the next time you think that you're getting a good deal or one that is too good to be true.

[TerrapinWill]

I can clearly see your point but it is still justifying the situation. I don't think that it is a big deal and you did go the extra mile somewhat but if you wanted it 100% on the up and up you would have pointed out that the coin shown is worth much more than the coin listed. One can justify any deed in the world. Perhaps I would have done the same thing that you did but remember that all cons work on greed and it could backfire the next time you think that you're getting a good deal or one that is too good to be true.

 

Actually I brought it up for discussion...not to justify. My comments were in response to others posts. I don't feel bad and I don't feel I need to protect sellers on ebay. When I bid, I asked if I was bidding on the coin pictured. When I rec'd it I emailed saying the coin I rec'd was not the one described in the auction. If others think it's a moral responsibility to tell the seller the difference in value, then my response is you're a better person than me.

 

Should the person who bought the Lincoln die varieties have told the seller what they were worth?

[rexcat]

Gentleman, gentleman, I must disagree will you in this situation.

 

The onus is on the person selling the coin to know what he has, not terrapinwells.

 

First you can’t sort out your coins and auctions… next some one contacts you, but you don’t see that as a red flag to check and double check your auction?? A stranger should “advise him of the mistake”, I don’t think so. HE SHOULD SEE IT, and if the seller doesn’t know different dates of the same type of coin, that’s his problem too, maybe he shouldn’t be selling on Ebay.

 

There is no comparison between this transaction and other coin deals where some one “cherry picks” and get a huge discount on a coin or situation Billy posted this week?

 

I feel it’s all the same; you catch something the seller didn’t, that’s your gain.

[midwest]

You did very well and I see nothing wrong

[gmarguli]

You're an awful person and God will strike you down for this!!! OK, maybe not. Personally, I think what you did is OK. Sure, it would have been nice had you pointed out the mistake to the seller, but that is not your job. It is the job of the seller to get their listings correct. The seller erred, not you.

 

I've been on both ends of this situation before. I was selling some PCGS graded early Memorial Lincoln cents. I listed a P & D in separate auctions and in the auction title I called them MS65. The description called them MS65 in one part and MS66 in another. The pictures - which I clearly stated was of the coin they were bidding on - was for MS66's. MS65's were $10-$20 coins while MS66's were $75-$100. They sold for under $15 each.

 

Days after the auction closed I realized my mistake. I could have sent the buyer MS65s and acted like the picture was wrong if they said anything and pointed to the auction title. I could have not sent anything and refunded his money when he never received them as they were "lost in the mail". I could have told the buyer to screw himself and I'm not sending anything and given his money back. However, I sent the MS66's. I sent them because it was MY mistake. The buyer had no part in my making this mistake. I made the mistake and I paid for it. That's life!

 

After the buyer received them he mentioned to me that he had noticed the error while bidding and wasn't sure which ones he was going to receive. Did I blame him for not telling me? Nope, because again, it was MY mistake.

 

 

However, I noticed a seller selling a box of "proof sets" from the 1950's & 1960's. The picture showed that several of the "proof sets" were in the double cardboard containers. For those that don't know, these are original MINT SETS, not proof sets, and they are worth quite a bit more, like 5X-15X as much as a proof set. I won the lot and when they arrived, they were nice original mint sets. Was it my job to inform the seller of their error? I don't believe so.

[TerrapinWill]

You're an awful person and God will strike you down for this!!! OK, maybe not. Personally, I think what you did is OK. Sure, it would have been nice had you pointed out the mistake to the seller, but that is not your job. It is the job of the seller to get their listings correct. The seller erred, not you.

 

I've been on both ends of this situation before. I was selling some PCGS graded early Memorial Lincoln cents. I listed a P & D in separate auctions and in the auction title I called them MS65. The description called them MS65 in one part and MS66 in another. The pictures - which I clearly stated was of the coin there were bidding on - was for MS66's. MS65's were $10-$20 coins while MS66's were $75-$100. They sold for under $15 each.

 

Days after the auction closed I realized my mistake. I could have sent the buyer MS65s and acted like the picture was wrong if they said anything and pointed to the auction title. I could have not sent anything and refunded his money when he never received them as they were "lost in the mail". I could have told the buyer to screw himself and I'm not sending anything and given his money back. However, I sent the MS66's. I sent them because it was MY mistake. The buyer had no part in my making this mistake. I made the mistake and I paid for it. That's life!

 

After the buyer received them he mentioned to me that he had noticed the error while bidding and wasn't sure which ones he was going to receive. Did I blame him for not telling me? Nope, because again, it was MY mistake.

 

 

However, I noticed a seller selling a box of "proof sets" from the 1950's & 1960's. The picture showed that several of the "proof sets" were in the double cardboard containers. For those that don't know, these are original MINT SETS, not proof sets, and they are worth quite a bit more, like 5X-15X as much as a proof set. I won the lot and when they arrived, they were nice original mint sets. Was it my job to inform the seller of their error? I don't believe so.

 

Well at least I'm not alone in my insanity. In my situation, I can see a scenario where I would have acted differently. If the seller had sent me a coin that was better than the one I was bidding on, but not the one pictured, I would have said plainly "you sent this coin and it is obviously not the one you intended to sell".In that case it would have been an obvious and excusable error. Know what I mean?

[cpm9ball]

I agree with Greg. It is not our place to play guardian angel to all of the sellers and/or buyers of the world. Knowledge is power and if they choose to load their weapons with blanks, so be it.

 

Chris

[EZ_E]

 

Days after the auction closed I realized my mistake. I could have sent the buyer MS65s and acted like the picture was wrong if they said anything and pointed to the auction title. I could have not sent anything and refunded his money when he never received them as they were "lost in the mail". I could have told the buyer to screw himself and I'm not sending anything and given his money back. However, I sent the MS66's. I sent them because it was MY mistake. The buyer had no part in my making this mistake. I made the mistake and I paid for it. That's life!

 

 

That is integrity. Doing the right thing regardless if someone is looking over your shoulder or not.

 

If others think it's a moral responsibility to tell the seller the difference in value, then my response is you're a better person than me.

 

Personally, I don't care one way or the other. You asked for opinions to be discussed and many gave them. Say, "Thank you, kind sir, and move on". It was a pretty insignificant event anyway.

[IGWT]

Wow....I really feel bad now........

 

Not only do I not feel "morally" worng, but think I went above and beyond what was required.

 

[macrocoin]

Have already done this and have no guilt whatsoever.

I didnt ask the seller to open the auction, nor did I insist they sell me their coins.

If I happen upon someone that is selling something for less than its worth, far be it from me to stop them.

 

I had this exact same thing occur and the sale went smoothly, positive feedback was given from both sides, and I certainly have no complaints.

 

Anyone that sells something sets their price. Its completely up to them.

If they are willing to part with something for less than the true market value, how is it my responsibility to intervene? Frankly, a fool and his money (or valuable coins as the case may be) are soon parted

[IGWT]

Some of the comments here have really opened my eyes. If I'm understanding correctly, many are saying that it's perfectly ethical to take advantage of a listing mistake or clerical error by a seller. So, if a seller mistakenly marks an 1877 1c for sale as an 1879 1c, you'll pay $500 and walk away with a $5,000 coin without so much as a twinge of guilt? Or is it simply that the $4,500 profit is enough to overcome the twinge of guilt?

[TerrapinWill]

Some of the comments here have really opened my eyes. If I'm understanding correctly, many are saying that it's perfectly ethical to take advantage of a listing mistake or clerical error by a seller. So, if a seller mistakenly marks an 1877 1c for sale as an 1879 1c, you'll pay $500 and walk away with a $5,000 coin without so much as a twinge of guilt? Or is it simply that the $4,500 profit is enough to overcome the twinge of guilt?

 

People selling coins on ebay should be as educated as people buying coins on Ebay. Does the seller bear NO responsibilty? Ebay says they are responsible for their listing. Should they be excused because they arent careful? I don't sell much on Ebay, hardly anything just stuf I no longer like. I bet I look at my auctions a dozen times while they are running. Sellers need to take responsibility, same as buyers. I can't tell you how many people say "caveat emptour" when people complain about purchases on Ebay, yet the same standard isnt held to sellers?

 

Give me a break already.

 

As for your example....That seller shouldn't be selling coins on Ebay!!

[IGWT]

As for your example....That seller shouldn't be selling coins on Ebay!!

 

Does it make a difference if the sale occurs in a shop or on a bourse floor? Say, for example, a seller has an 1877 1c in his case that is mislabeled as an 1879 1c. Are your feelings the same in this situation?

[TerrapinWill]

As for your example....That seller shouldn't be selling coins on Ebay!!

 

Does it make a difference if the sale occurs in a shop or on a bourse floor? Say, for example, a seller has an 1877 1c in his case that is mislabeled as an 1879 1c. Are your feelings the same in this situation?

 

Not in my mind.....dealers/sellers are or should be repsonsible for what they sell.

Put it another way....I have seen literally hundreds of thread about people cherrypicking VAMS worth many multiples of their sale price on ebay. Is that anymore ethical? Why is using your knowledge to cherrypick an Ebay seller and more ethical than benefitting from a sellers incompetence as it relates to a listing?

 

In the end, people have to live with what they decide to do. In my own case, I have had no problem sleeping at night because I gave the seller two opportunites to discover their error. either they were uninformed or unconcerned. In the case of the fella that cherrypicked the varieties, I'm sure he feels good about it too.

If the seller in my case had emailed me and said "I think i sent the wrong coin", I would have sent it back. But it's up to him to recognize his error, just like if he was selling on a bourse floor.

 

if you walk up to a dealers table and ask him how much he wants for a coin that is mis labeled....he picks it up and looks at it and says "XXXX", and you know it's worth 5 thimes that, are you gonna say "You have made an error and should charge me at least 5 times XXXX? I seriously doubt it. why is an ebay sale any different?

[vumc409]

Let me first say I understand the concepts of "caveat emptour" and morality. Second, let me say that I and not perfect and do not profess to be. I too have likely been in this same situation either as a buyer or seller.

 

Lastly, let me pose another hypothetical scenario involving money, only this time bills instead of coins.

 

You go into a store and purchase $9.89 worth of products. You are having a conversation with the next person in line when the cashier tells you what you owe. As you are still talking you reach into your wallet and pull out a

$100 bill and hand it to the cashier. Should the cashier give you $0.11 and keep the $90 tip or give you $90.11 in change?

 

Reverse the situation. Say the cashier is talking when you hand over a $10 bill. The cashier gives you $90.11 in change instead of $0.11. Do you keep the extra $90 or state the error to the cashier?

 

While I hope everyone would do the morally right thing, would such a scenario not also apply to a seller taking $100 for a $10 coin just because the buyer was not knowledgeable about that coin? Should you accept a $100 coin when you only paid $10 for it and knew it while bidding? While knowledge is power, does the Bible not tell us that ill-gotten gains will haunt us at a later date!

 

Either way, do we not have a moral obligation, regardless of the situation to do the right thing? As the Golden Rule says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"!

[michael]

life is only about choices

 

you make your choices and you live with them

 

not good or bad or right or wrong just the way it is

 

you and i are on totally opposite sides of the fence on this specific sleezebay deal

[braddick]

life is only about choices

 

you make your choices and you live with them

 

not good or bad or right or wrong just the way it is

 

you and i are on totally opposite sides of the fence on this specific sleezebay deal

I agree with Michael, only to add, you have to please yourself, and if married, your spouse.

If your spouse was standing right next to you when you did what you did and you're alright with that, you probably acted ethically.

 

It's the time you are even slightly ashamed to have your wife watch your activity you should then evaluate what it is you're doing.

 

It's a simplistic barometer but it works for me.