Is there method to this madness????

[MikeKing]

I know this is belaboring the issue, but I'm stuck on figuring this one out as best as I can, and need some insight. I therefore apologize for extending my prior post on this issue (Standing Liberty mysteries).

 

The Standing Liberty Quarter MS68 has a population of 3 (2 from PCGS, one from NGC) in MS68, one higher.

 

The photos I'm attaching are both of the reverse of a Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS68 which shows marks below the L wing of the eagle.

 

I believe they are both the same coin. Both didn't sell.

 

One was put up for auction at Bowers and Merena, lot # 264 July 29, 2002 which shows the marks more clearly than the other photo. I believe this to be the same coin, used by Heritage, in their most recent auction (Lot # 6240 Sale 318 Heritage May 1-3 2003).

 

This coin also didn't sell in a prior Heritage auction (Lot # 6745 Feb 26, 2003).

 

Of note, the coin is now up for sale for $ 40,250.00 in the Heritage post-auction sale.

 

 

My questions are:

 

1. Is this the same coin? (I am pretty certain it is, the marks below the L wing appearing to be highlited differently in each picture).

2. Is this truly an MS68 (wouldn't the marks below the L wing have disqualified it for that level?)

3. Why would a $7,000.00 coin sell for $40,000.00? (The NGC counterpart sold for $6,440.00 lot #6199 at the October 2000 Long Beach Sale/Heritage).

4. Assuming the reserve that wasn't met was just over $34,000.00; If the seller had to pay a buy back premium on his lots which didn't sell three times, their buy back premium would have been well over $10,000.00!

 

Unless, of course, this is not a 7,000.00 coin, but a 40,000.00 coin, and I'm wasting my breath.

 

Or is there method to this madness?

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeKing]

This is the reverse of the coin offered by Heritage

[gmarguli]

1. Is this the same coin? (I am pretty certain it is, the marks below the L wing appearing to be highlited differently in each picture).

 

It appears to be. The Heritage photo is just a lot nicer.

 

 

2. Is this truly an MS68 (wouldn't the marks below the L wing have disqualified it for that level?)

 

I don't know. The surfaces appear to be mark free. The marks on the reverse are probably tiny. The picture is much larger than the actual coin, so they look bigger than they really are. If the rest of the coin is as mark free as it looks, I don't know why MS68 isn't out of the question. They could also be luster breaks instead of marks.

 

 

3. Why would a $7,000.00 coin sell for $40,000.00? (The NGC counterpart sold for $6,440.00 lot #6199 at the October 2000 Long Beach Sale/Heritage).

 

Why is it a $7000 coin? Just because another example sold for $7000 3 years earlier has no bearing on the value of this coin. The registry has attracted a lot of stupid people with money into this hobby. Prices of nice material has also risen while other investments (like stocks) have been hit.

 

Perhaps the coin in 2000 sold too cheaply? Perhaps the owner of this coin wanted too much? Maybe the value is in the middle?

 

 

4. Assuming the reserve that wasn't met was just over $34,000.00; If the seller had to pay a buy back premium on his lots which didn't sell three times, their buy back premium would have been well over $10,000.00!

 

Reserves and buy backs aren't the same thing. A buy back is usually an owner BIDDING on his coins. A reserve is a price set by the owner that tells the auction company not to sell the coin below this price. Frequently buy backs will be waived if it is only for one lot or you are a big customer. Even if not, it might only be 5% which would have been $1700.

 

[braddick]

Tough to tell by a photo but I'm of the school of thought that ANY MS68 coin should not have marks/ticks visible in the focal areas that readily.

In other words the marks shouldn't be easily seen within seconds of picking up the coin. The marks may very well be there, but in 68 they should be 'hidden' and more than just a casual glance should turn them up.

 

[coinman1794]

It is entirely posible that those marks are raised die lines and not scratches.

[TomB]

I'm pretty certain that the two coins attached are the same coin. However, I'm not so certain that the marks near the eagle's wing are actually scratches. They could well be die lines or even scratches in the plastic of the holder. Yes, I would think that these would be removed prior to imaging, but, this is not a perfect world. I haven't seen the obverse of the coin yet but I do know that MS68 coins do have obvious scratches or imperfections on them. Please note that my definition of "obvious" might be extremely different from anyone else.

 

I haven't looked at the Heritage sale of the $7,000 coin yet, but, at first glance, I have to agree with Greg. That is an over two year lag in a hot market; that can make an enormous difference. Also, the bidders should be buying the coin, therefore, the grade is not so important. It is how the coins compare. Perhaps the owner of this coin believes it to be a shot 69? If so, the reserve would be huge.

 

Also, we don't know what the reserve is on this piece, as far as I can tell. So, the reserve was above $34,000. The Heritage price is an asking price, it may likely have a "Make Offer" tag on the coin in a month and they might accept $35,000. Heritage is in this to make money on the coin, just like every owner was.

 

I'll look for the images of this coin and the other on the Heritage site.

[truthteller]

In my opinion, the coins are one in the same. One cannot judge the coin by a picture. There may be scratches on the plastic, or the angle of light hits the coin and causes a bad reflection. To grade coins higher than MS65, you need to view the coin in person, especially for hairlines. As far as prices are concerned, a MS65 coin could be $400, then regraded and ***POOOF****, MS68, now the same coin is worth $50,000. It all depends on the buyer and his money, which are soon parted. Any two coins, similar in look and price, cannot be judged in value more than two months later. Market and buyers change constantly and consistently.

 

TRUTH