Planchet forming from NGC and a new Teletrade designation

[midwest]

Ok i'm going to kill two birds with one stone here.

 

First NGC has a neat article on forming planchets that includes some stunning pictures. link

 

Also Teletrade has a new designation... first strike unfortunately it's not a joke This might just take the award for lamest thing created by Teletrade... EVER

[gmarguli]

It's a PCGS designation, not TeleTrade. It's also the most laughable designation to ever be applied to coins and that's considering we've seen Full Split Beak on Washington quarters. And it's also wrong.

[midwest]

It's a PCGS designation, not TeleTrade.

 

It's actually a searchable thing now on TeleTrade just like the beloved rainbow designation. link I am so excited I can search for "1st strike lots" now.

[JamminJ]

that's considering we've seen Full Split Beak on Washington quarters.

 

Really? Did I miss this one?

[Beijim]

As the hobby seems to be performing a thorough cavity search for new and increasingly meaningless designations, it's past time we inaugurate the Full Pant Load (FPL) designation and award it to those sellers (and yes, auction houses) who traffic in this moronic trend. I couldn't agree more with Greg.

 

Beijim

[gmarguli]

that's considering we've seen Full Split Beak on Washington quarters.

 

Really? Did I miss this one?

 

Yep. ACG had a TM on it and Full Hand for WLH and a bunch of other moronic strike designations that no one cared about. When you could find all of AH's garbage on eBay he was running a bunch of these.

[Bruceswar]

I have never seen a full split beak... m I would like to see one....

[Hoot]

As the hobby seems to be performing a thorough cavity search for new and increasingly meaningless designations, it's past time we inaugurate the Full Pant Load (FPL) designation and award it to those sellers (and yes, auction houses) who traffic in this moronic trend. I couldn't agree more with Greg.

 

Beijim

 

Tell us how you really feel Beijim.

 

I've heard the "first struck" garbage being hawked on one of the TV sales shows. And to think that the best struck of 1950s Jefferson nickels from the most apparently fresh dies were those with great and crisp details, but not FS. The dies had to be significantly lapped before the metal would flow into the step devices.

 

Hoot

[JamminJ]

that's considering we've seen Full Split Beak on Washington quarters.

 

Really? Did I miss this one?

 

Yep. ACG had a TM on it and Full Hand for WLH and a bunch of other moronic strike designations that no one cared about. When you could find all of AH's garbage on eBay he was running a bunch of these.

 

That's pretty funny but at least they didn't catch on (yet).

[Beijim]

Heh heh, Hoot. You're a good man. I may speak with barbed tongue, but it will never be forked.

 

The nouveau bogus "designation" that irks me most these days, other than "First Strike," is the totally manufactured "Full Talons" moniker being applied to Susan B. Anthony $1 coins by some eBay sellers.

 

As a collector of the much despised series, I find no merit in this terminology. All of my NGC MS 67 and 68 (and of course PF 70 UC) examples have well defined talons because the coins overall are well struck (for SBAs, that is ). It isn't as though the talon design possesses the fine lines that distinguish Full Split Band Mercuries or Full Step Jeffersons or Full Bell Line Franklins.

 

The whole thing just strikes me as so much puffery, intended to hornswoggle the ignorant.

 

Other than that, I have no strong feelings on the subject.

 

Beijim

[Beijim]

BTW, the planchet forming article is excellent. Thank you!

 

Beijim

[EZ_E]

As the hobby seems to be performing a thorough cavity search for new and increasingly meaningless designations, it's past time we inaugurate the Full Pant Load (FPL) designation and award it to those sellers (and yes, auction houses) who traffic in this moronic trend. I couldn't agree more with Greg.

 

Beijim

 

 

However, a Walker with a fully struck hand is scarce and should be worth more. Maybe this wouldn't be a silly designation afterall.

 

As far as FBL's: who gives a flippin' flop?! At least I don't. Kind of seems anal to me and some which are actually aren't. Same opinion about FS's but I'll hush about that.

[James_OldeTowne]

The "first strike" designation is an example of precisely why I can't stand PCGS anymore. It's a nauseating marketing ploy, and there are some folks who are numismatically illiterate enough to be suckered in by such garbage.

 

To be honest, NGC has come up with some amazingly awful marketing ploys of their own - such as the infamous "shipwreck effect" that pop up frequently on TeleTrade. However, in the cesspool of nauseating marketing ploys, PCGS stands head and shoulders above NGC. ANACS seems to be least susceptible to that kind of garbage.

 

Maybe NGC could come up with something like "First Blood" to combat the PCGS "first strike" stupidity!

 

ICG may be the ultimate worst, and I'll be posting more about that soon....

 

James

[James_OldeTowne]

Oops, also, THANKS for the link to the planchet forming process. I've bookmarked it.

 

James

[IGWT]

It's a PCGS designation, not TeleTrade. It's also the most laughable designation to ever be applied to coins and that's considering we've seen Full Split Beak on Washington quarters. And it's also wrong.

 

The TPGs lose credibility every time they try to create a market in coins instead of simply serving the market. The coin market itself created astronomical price differentials associated with one-point spreads in grade. The TPGs no doubt benefit from this aspect of the market; but, at least it's a condition of the market itself. Strike designations -- epitomized by this "first strike" nonsense -- are another matter altogether. They are an attempt to make a market.

 

The TPGs have seen how collectors act irrationally in response to a one-point spread in grade (at least I think that it's somewhat irrational to pay multiples of, say, a -66 for a -67). Strike designations reflect a strategy that exploits irrational behavior; they further segment the market to squeeze the last dollar out of a coin. As though the price differential between a -66 and a -67 isn't already large enough, the collector is jacked up for a -66 with FBL, FH, FSB -- or, God help us -- a "first strike" designation. Maybe it's our irrationality that makes us forget that the grade of a coin is already supposed to account for its strike without any special designation.

 

A full strike is worth a premium, but -- even if the TPG designations were truly indicative of a full strike -- the price associated with the designation is generally excessive. Yes, I know that a price isn't "excessive" if that's what a buyer is willing to pay. Still, I don't think that we can ignore the fact that managing supply (the creation of "rarity," for example, by strike designations) creates demand in a collectibles market. Too many collectors are too easily manipulated.

[Oldtrader3]

I think the designation that should be important is eye appeal. Maybe they should have an "EA" designation, regardless of grade. The problem is: who decides EA? If it is many dealers that I know, it will be meaningless, just like First Strike.

[Beijim]

The "first strike" designation is an example of precisely why I can't stand PCGS anymore. It's a nauseating marketing ploy, and there are some folks who are numismatically illiterate enough to be suckered in by such garbage.

 

To be honest, NGC has come up with some amazingly awful marketing ploys of their own - such as the infamous "shipwreck effect" that pop up frequently on TeleTrade. However, in the cesspool of nauseating marketing ploys, PCGS stands head and shoulders above NGC.

 

Man I love the English language and learning from its finer practitioners. Bravo.

 

One question, however, on the cesspool visual. Isn't it preferable, in a cesspool, to be standing head and shoulders above the other occupants, or perhaps even standing ON their heads and shoulders? A technical question, I grant, but since we're on the topic...

 

Beijim

[Beijim]

Still, I don't think that we can ignore the fact that managing supply (the creation of "rarity," for example, by strike designations) creates demand in a collectibles market.

 

One need look only as far as the diamond market to see the canonical example.

 

Beijim

[midwest]

ICG may be the ultimate worst, and I'll be posting more about that soon....

 

James

 

I agree. I don't know how many weird chintzy ICG things i've seen Mr.Repeator on HSN sell. In general everyone needs to stop doing these cheesy gimmicks. I just can't wait untill I see the next new phase in the cheese wars. Maybe they'll just cut to the chase and finally just sell people empty sealed holders. That's is all that's being done here.

 

Besides that I always wondered how they figured out which coins are "first strikes".

[HaydenTubbs]

ICG may be the ultimate worst, and I'll be posting more about that soon....

 

James

 

I agree. I don't know how many weird chintzy ICG things i've seen Mr.Repeator on HSN sell. In general everyone needs to stop doing these cheesy gimmicks. I just can't wait untill I see the next new phase in the cheese wars. Maybe they'll just cut to the chase and finally just sell people empty sealed holders. That's is all that's being done here.

 

Besides that I always wondered how they figured out which coins are "first strikes".

 

First submissions...

Apparently it has to be in an original sealed mintbox and be submitted within a certain period of time after they first go on sale...

[EZ_E]

Still, I don't think that we can ignore the fact that managing supply (the creation of "rarity," for example, by strike designations) creates demand in a collectibles market.

 

One need look only as far as the diamond market to see the canonical example.

 

Beijim

 

Exactly, if all of the diamonds mined were released into the market simultaneously then they would be practically worthless. IMO, a diamond is one of the worse of all investments. Pay retail and sell for half of its value. A 1ct VVS1 Color F sell for about 8 grand and the same as a 1.5 carot is about 15K. If not for marketing and the value a woman places on them then they would be much, much less.

 

I can sum up all of these extra designations up in three words:

 

Marketing, Marketing, Marketing

[Oldtrader3]

Victor: You are right about diamonds, but I am in the process of getting married again. I offered my Fiance a colored stone (ruby, emerald) or a diamond (of which she already had a nice ring). She wanted a diamond, so she got a 1-1/2 carat VVS2 oval cut. Sometimes giving them what they want is more important. Besides, she puts up with me and my coin collection, which is more than my last wife did!

[cpm9ball]

I think the designation that should be important is eye appeal. Maybe they should have an "EA" designation, regardless of grade. The problem is: who decides EA? If it is many dealers that I know, it will be meaningless, just like First Strike.

 

OT3 , do you think they should use an "OS" designation for original skin? Just be sure not to discuss it with a computer geek!

 

Chris

[EZ_E]

Victor: You are right about diamonds, but I am in the process of getting married again. I offered my Fiance a colored stone (ruby, emerald) or a diamond (of which she already had a nice ring). She wanted a diamond, so she got a 1-1/2 carat VVS2 oval cut. Sometimes giving them what they want is more important. Besides, she puts up with me and my coin collection, which is more than my last wife did!

 

 

 

Congratulations, Charlie!!!!

[Oldtrader3]

Thanks, Victor.

[braddick]

The "first strike" designation is an example of precisely why I can't stand PCGS anymore. It's a nauseating marketing ploy, and there are some folks who are numismatically illiterate enough to be suckered in by such garbage.

 

To be honest, NGC has come up with some amazingly awful marketing ploys of their own - such as the infamous "shipwreck effect" that pop up frequently on TeleTrade. However, in the cesspool of nauseating marketing ploys, PCGS stands head and shoulders above NGC. ANACS seems to be least susceptible to that kind of garbage.

 

James

Unfortunutely ANACS also falls prey to the gimmicks.

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[Beijim]

Wounded Eagle. Speared Bison.

 

What is this, a coin grading service or an episode of "F Troop?"

 

Beijim

[jgrinz]

F troop - hahaha Your aging yourself my friend

 

Mike