And, the NGC 1964 SMS Kennedy half opens at $11,500.00

[Russ-migration]

1964 SMS Kennedy opens very strong.

 

Any predictions on what it will hit? I think it'll end up being a "not sold".

 

Russ, NCNE

[keithdagen]

$13,500 (no juice) and sold.

[TomB]

I've seen this coin in person many times and have held it in hand to closely examine it. I think it's a nice coin but I also think that it will go unsold as the price, to me, is too high for what it is.

[Russ-migration]

Keith,

 

You think it will sell? I don't know. My gut tells me that it's just being shopped right now. If I were the owner, and considering the current state of the market, I'd be hanging on to it for a while. It's one of the very few truly rare moderns without regard for condition.

 

Russ, NCNE

[keithdagen]

It may be in the process of being shopped, but the question is, what is it worth? I want to say that the other Kennedys in 64 SMS have gone for under $8 or $9K, so that's the extra point worth?

 

And the things were made under dubious circumstances. And is that a print forming between T and Y of Liberty?

[Hoot]

Well, let's also consider the Jefferson nickel! Opened at 14.5k! (Of course it would go for more than the Kennedy! ) Not even a picture!!!

 

I think all the SMS coins are opening at around reserve or greater, so I think they'll all sell. I don't want to predict what they'll sell for, as I would have not predicted greater than 6k for the Jeff!

 

Produced dubiously? I more often think that these were simply patterns that somehow made it out of the Mint, so the dubious circumstance seems to be more their release than their production.

 

 

Hoot

[truthteller]

For some reason, owners of these esoteric coins often submit them to teletrade to establish a price for future sales. I do not think this coin will sell, but it will show up at a future Heritage or Bowers auction. MY .

 

TRUTH

[keithdagen]

Produced dubiously? I more often think that these were simply patterns that somehow made it out of the Mint, so the dubious circumstance seems to be more their release than their production.

 

No record of their manufacture, or how many were manufactured. Everything related to them tends to be based on rumor rather than any solid facts that can be backed up by mint documentation.

[keithdagen]

For some reason, owners of these esoteric coins often submit them to teletrade to establish a price for future sales.

 

That's always been a huge problem with Teletrade and pop-top modern coins (any possible, but moderns especially).

 

Seller can buy back his coin during the auction at a price he wants to establish, costing him only the buyer's and seller's fees, and make a freshly minted state quarter or MS-70 commem appear more valuable than it really is.

[Hoot]

No record of their manufacture, or how many were manufactured. Everything related to them tends to be based on rumor rather than any solid facts that can be backed up by mint documentation.

 

True, but the Mint had a long-time practice of producing pattern coins in the year before the release of a new issue. I just don't think it's all that mysterious. Afterall, we're not speaking of TDN's 1913 nick!

 

Hoot

[gmarguli]

I also think it will go unsold. I think it's worth $3000 max, but that is just a personal opinion obviously not reflected by the market.

 

I'd pay $500 for it and $1000 for a complete 1964 SMS set.

[Russ-migration]

I'd pay $500 for it and $1000 for a complete 1964 SMS set.

 

Yeah, so would I.

 

Russ, NCNE

[DonHeath]

I believe it will be sold, and will fetch around $12,000. It is a coin I'd love to own, but the timing is wrong.

[braddick]

Greg- I no where have the funds, but owning this one at about ten grand (a selling price on it about ten years ago) seems about right.

It's a neat coin that always turns up the heat when it is displayed.

 

Tough to beat the mintage too.

 

If a 53-S Franklin can sell for $50,000.00+ and a 1963 Proof Lincoln for $35,000+ and a MS69 1972-S Ike can sell for $5,000.00, then this (mintage of TEN?! Twelve? -Something like that) MS69 Specimen Kennedy should be (and is to me) worth $10,000.00.

 

[gmarguli]

braddick, at the end of the day, it is still a Kennedy.

 

Sorry, but this coin doesn't do much for me. It's rare (unless 1000 more turn up). It's super high grade. It's got an "OK" history. However, when it is all said and done, it is still a Kennedy.

 

I'd rather have an MS67 silver business strike than this coin.

[braddick]

Ok. I've got the PCGS MS67 1964 Business Strike. Get me this Specimen, and you've GOT A DEAL!

 

(((I do know what you mean about it being a Kennedy, but once the series is not minted and it's a closed set, I think you'll see a spike in interests and ANY of these super tough and/or grade rarity coins will surface as being the true winners at the pricing levels seen now.)))

[keithdagen]

I do know what you mean about it being a Kennedy, but once the series is not minted and it's a closed set, I think you'll see a spike in interests and ANY of these super tough and/or grade rarity coins will surface as being the true winners at the pricing levels seen now

 

What do you think comes first? A half dollar redesign or the end of production?

 

Because the method of manufacture isn't really well known, I treat this as a novelty proof-like coin, and unless there is a consensus as to what the coin is, don't think that it will ever pass novelty or pattern status.

[braddick]

Keith- You're tough!!

I consider this Kennedy WAAAAY past the "Novelty Status" and right smack center stage and the KEY to the Kennedy Set: Full "Specimen" status, deserving all the pom-pom, hip, hip hurray, glory any Kennedy could/should receive.

 

I think when the Kennedy half is retired so will the coin itself.

Could be at the conclusion of 2004 (30th anniversary?).

Pure speculation, but I don't think the general public will complain, nor will the collecting public.

[gmarguli]

I think we are a long way off from ending the Kennedy. While it should have happened decades ago, there is just too much political support for JFK. All the little old ladies remembering the days of Camelhump or whatever they called it. I'm sure any move to get Kennedy off the half would result in screams from these people.

[keithdagen]

deserving all the pom-pom, hip, hip hurray, glory any Kennedy could/should receive.

 

Thus, Greg's offer to swap it with a business strike.

 

Pure speculation, but I don't think the general public will complain, nor will the collecting public

 

Last Wednesday, I was teaching a Bible class of kindergartners and for prizes, I gave out Kennedy halves from Mint Sets that weren't worth slabbing. The kids all thought that they were two quarters squeezed together. Sad thing is that most of the parents (in their mid-30's) didn't know what they were either.

[DonHeath]

LMAO.....I loved Camelhump. The choice was Nixon. It was a pretty optimistic time. The series should have ended in 1987. As for the coin in question, I'd love to own it and wouldn't care that it was considered a pattern or novelty. Tons of collectors don't think much of most of the oddities of the hobby. The 1913 Lib, the 1933 St.Gaudens, etc. This coin isn't on par with these oddities, but if you like the series, this coin is a very desireable piece. Hey, the public hated the SLQ. Go figure.

[Wihlborg]

Hi Don,

 

I would love to own it also, but would you be willing to pay the current asking price even if you had the money to spend on it?

 

There is just no way I could ever bring myself to pay anywhere near $5,000 let alone $10,000 or more for a Kennedy half. I might be tempted to go as high as $2,500 and would have to really think about it.

 

This is from someone who likes them and has a complete set in high grade mint state.

 

John

[Russ-migration]

Well, now at $15K. Frankly, I didn't think it would get bid up this high. The nickel is at $18K.

 

Russ, NCNE

[DonHeath]

John,

 

I think I would, because it is the only coin in the series IMO that isn't a condition rarity. I think it is an interesting coin. It''s alot like the 21 proof Peace dollar, in my estimation.

 

[Leothelion]

As for the 1964 SMS Jeffersons, a handful of FS Jeff collectors have them. I had a chance to own one at $1600 but passed. These SMS coins were trial or test examples to find a replacement for the proof sets for 1965 to 1967. I have heard estimates as low as 6-8 sets to 24 sets were made. Somehow they left the mint and Stacks ended up with them. They show up every so often. I'm aware of 1964 SMS cents, nickels and the halves selling but not the dime or quarter. Not that they have, I just haven't seen those two up for auction. At the time I heard about them, estimates for the nickel was at $800, now they sell at $2-3000 with asking prices as high as $7500. I think $1200 would be about right, at least that is my offer.

 

Leothelion

 

Edited to add; Make that $18000 is as high of a asking price I've seen and I'm aware of two FS collectors who have them at that grade.

[kenwin1]

I just looked at the coin and under the magnifcation it looks like there is a couple of fingerprints and lots of tiny scratches, is that the holder or on the coin?

[TomB]

If I remember correctly, I believe there might be a partial fingerprint along the obverse rim somewhere, however, I don't recall seeing pin-[!@#%^&^] on the coin. The surfaces are different than what one typically sees and this creates the impression of, almost, a wiped coin.

 

The one-time, and perhaps still current, owner of this coin had the entire set available very recently. He also had duplicates of most of the coins. As far as I know, he has handled more of these than anyone else out there and would likely be happy to shed more history on the piece. He has told me in the past about the coins but, if I try to repeat it here, I am certain that I will get some details mixed up.

[mark]

TomB:

 

If you can the owner of the 1964 SMS coins to talk about their history on these boards (or on the boards across the street) I know one collector who will be greatly indebted to you!

 

Mark

[keithdagen]

I'm aware of 1964 SMS cents, nickels and the halves selling but not the dime or quarter. Not that they have, I just haven't seen those two up for auction.

 

Bowers had the quarter in an auction in the last year. Can't remember if it was a regular auction or a Kingswood auction.

[keithdagen]

Not sold, you were correct. Did anyone see the final high bid?