1995-W Anniversery Silver Eagle and Gold Proof Set

[rtwguy-migration]

Hello everyone-

 

I don't post very often but I respect everyone's views so I thought you could give your thoughts on this question. It is my belief due to what is happening in the economy right now that we are heading for some strong tailwinds at the very least. I would give my reasons, but I am an economist and can be very boring at times, at least my fiancee says so when I go on about it. So if this holds true, and coin prices start to move down, what would you do if you held a 1995-W Anniversary Set with the Silver Eagle. I have two sets actually, I bought them in 2002 when things were bad, the market was getting kicked around, and I was able to buy them, well lets just say it was a good deal. i have seen the sets selling for $5500 and up on ebay, and I am wondering what the group thinks on how these coins will hold their value if we do have some trouble, hypothetically speaking. Or would you just hold on for the fact that only 30,000 approximately were made, and over time it does not matter. What does the jury say? Any thoughts well appreciated, Thanks, John

[Hoot]

what would you do if you held a 1995-W Anniversary Set with the Silver Eagle. I have two sets actually, I bought them in 2002 when things were bad, the market was getting kicked around, and I was able to buy them, well lets just say it was a good deal.

 

John - Most wives think coin collectors are boring, let alone economists. (But take heart; I am a scientist and my wife is veritably hostile to me when I speak of it.)

 

I don't think that the set will lose a lot of value, though it may slow down in terms of rising price. Personally, i think it will settle in at the current price for a good, long while. But when it comes to conjecture on such matters, it's just that - conjecture.

 

What would I do with it now? If I needed 11 grand, I'd sell it. If I could place that kind of cash into a classic rarity or something that has historically captured the interest of myself and other collecotrs, I'd do it in a heartbeat. There are grand coins of significant import to be had for 11 grand, and the 1995-W silver eagle is not one (or two) of them.

 

Hoot

[EZ_E]

I completely agree with hoot. The ASE program is extremely popular and will most likely continue to be. This relates to stable prices, however, I feel that they are overpriced and, if I were you, I would sell them.

 

I'm surprised that the 1997 matte finish Jefferson nickel (mintage of 25K) has not skyrocketed in price. There are lots of recent Canadian issues with 30K and less that has not done much either.

So, prices relate more to popularity and supply and demand than to the actual mintage. Look at alot of the platinum proofs, many are low mintages of less than 10K but their prices are linked to their bullion content and not to the mintages at all. Try to sell any of those to a dealer and you'd be lucky to get 5% over spot.

 

But look at some of the recent mint sets and silver/clad proof sets. They all have a mintage of at least 800,000 but bring heavy premiums. But people are paying the premiums o/w, they wouldn't sell.

 

I'm also surprised that some of the commemorative 5$ gold hasn't done much like the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic uncirculated with a mintage of a tad over 10K. It is priced just barely over the proof. But, yet, the Jackie Robinson uncirculated is stupid money, close to five grand.

 

Anyway, just a couple of things to chew on.

[Bruceswar]

great response..... with 11,000 you could get a real nice early dollar Those will go up faster than the 1995 W... Its all preference

[Oldtrader3]

You can purchase an awesome starter set of several gold or 19th Century coins for $11K. The manner in which classic and higher graded gold prices have been moving, it bears consideration of this course of action.

[cladking]

The conventional wisdom is that classic coins are more likely to hold their values in a downturn because the markets are more mature and the demand broader based but this is far more complicated than appears on the surface. Classic coin collectors do tend to be wealthier and more stable than average but the nature of a downturn would determine who is most affected. A garden style recession could actually be beneficial to the eagle since more people unemployed or staying at home because of costs would mean greater leisure time activities. Just as coin collecting exploded during the great depression it might happen again as people tried to fill all their folders and albums with pocket change. Few of these individuals would be bidding up the prices of SAE's but such activity would focus a huge amount of attention on all the more recent coins.

 

Stagflation or a significant increase in inflation would probably get money flowing into precious metals and the hobby. This would tend to drive up all prices though I wouldn't expect premiums for gold to do especially better than premiums for all coins, tokens, and medals.

 

A deflationary enviroment is probably impossible because debt levels are so high that there would be a complete loss of faith in the dollar and the ability of debtors to repay. A severe depression is also "impossible" because it is politically unacceptable. Large numbers of the electorate starving is not good for either party.

 

However we get through this will probably involve at least some inflation. Watch what happens in the oil markets and emerging energy markets over the next few years to get a feel for how things will play out. In all likelyhood we'll muddle through this era of challenges and when we look back we'll see that the trends which drove coin prices remained intact even if they occasionally seemed to respond more to overbought or oversold conditions.

[michael]

What would I do with it now? If I needed 11 grand, I'd sell it. If I could place that kind of cash into a classic rarity or something that has historically captured the interest of myself and other collecotrs, I'd do it in a heartbeat. There are grand coins of significant import to be had for 11 grand, and the 1995-W silver eagle is not one (or two) of them.

 

Hoot

 

you never lose money taking a profit and then putting it into what hoot said as per the above

[michael]

 

OR BETTER YET!!!!

 

you could sell them and take the money you originally invested in the two 1995 sets and do something else with it save it wahtever pay some bills etc.

 

and then take the profit AND buy a really sexy small small eagle silver dollar and you are into the dollar for free

 

or take the profit and get a a sexy pre 1865 date in xf and low mintage 1880's three dollar gold in really choice au and you would be in both those coins at nothing as you took your cost for the two 1995 sets out of the mix and using the profit for these coins

 

or you could buy for exaMPLE with the profits a choice au 1955 doubled die cent and then buy a really cool choice proof seated or trade dollar wild!!! and be into those two coins at again nothing

 

sswwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

 

[clctcoins]

Keep those sets unless your family is starving. The American Silver Eagle Series is one of the most popular, and growing collectible segmants in the market. To date, there is only one undisputed key in the series, and that is the coin you hold in your hand. No true American Silver Eagle set can be considered complete without that coin. For this reason, it will always remain in complete demand. As time goes on, more collectors will continue to join the pool of people who will need this coin. That, and the fact that fewer and fewer will be available as those on the market will eventually find long-term homes, will continue to drive prices upward. If you are timid to keep the whole set out of fear that bullion prices will decrease, causing the value of the gold coins to decline, submit all 10 coins, at the same time, to PCGS or NGC for certification. You will likely get all coins back in PF-69 holders, and might get lucky and receive a PF-70 or two. Sell the 8 gold coins on e-bay, recoup your investment, and keep the two winners. As that MSNBC guy says, HOLD, HOLD, HOLD!

[cpm9ball]

Keep those sets unless your family is starving. The American Silver Eagle Series is one of the most popular, and growing collectible segmants in the market. To date, there is only one undisputed key in the series, and that is the coin you hold in your hand. No true American Silver Eagle set can be considered complete without that coin. For this reason, it will always remain in complete demand. As time goes on, more collectors will continue to join the pool of people who will need this coin. That, and the fact that fewer and fewer will be available as those on the market will eventually find long-term homes, will continue to drive prices upward. If you are timid to keep the whole set out of fear that bullion prices will decrease, causing the value of the gold coins to decline, submit all 10 coins, at the same time, to PCGS or NGC for certification. You will likely get all coins back in PF-69 holders, and might get lucky and receive a PF-70 or two. Sell the 8 gold coins on e-bay, recoup your investment, and keep the two winners. As that MSNBC guy says, HOLD, HOLD, HOLD!

 

Get them graded if you wish, but hold on to the SAE's. For that matter, I wouldn't be in too much of a rush to sell the gold yet. Bullion prices have been climbing recently.

 

Chris

[ldhair]

I would not send a 95W in to be slabbed at this time.

Folks are having problems with spots after being slabbed.

You might want to wait for a while and see what come of this. Just my thoughts.

[gmarguli]

Sell them and buy real coins.

[ladynumismatist]

If you really need the money, how about a compromise by selling one set and keeping the other? Though I do agree with the other posters. If I were you and didn't need the money, I'd hang onto both sets. My main reason would be 1) of the 30,125 sets issued, a great many have been broken up so collectors can just have the Silver Eagle. 2) of the remaining "intact" sets, many of THOSE are going to be broken up for coin grading. 3) any remaining (ungraded) "intact" sets are going to be more scarce. But the question really is how well do you like your sets, knowing once they're sold, they might never be replaced. My 1995-W set was $500 over issue price in the secondary market, back when $500 was all W Silver Eagle was worth. So I really got a profit! Having every unc. and proof year Silver Eagle issued in my collection, I plan to hang onto my W set. I don't plan on grading it either, so the set will stay intact, even though a dealer friend says my Silver Eagle looks like a PR-70.

 

By the way, I can understand the viewpoint of "classic" collectors. The coins minted now are more or less commodities that rise and fall like stock. It takes some of the fun from the hobby. Having collected coins since 1970 (at age seven!), most of my collection has been pocket change (including SILVER pocket change) until I actually started buying dealer coins after the 1980s silver/gold boom ended, bringing prices back down. However, when I started collecting Silver Eagles, I didn't have profit in mind, just that I liked the coin. (Isn't that what coin collecting is supposed to be about, anyway??) The back-dates I couldn't get through the Mint were then modestly priced on secondary market. If I had to pay today's back-date prices, I doubt I would have collected Silver Eagles to the extent I have.

[Bruceswar]

Welcome lady, but I must disagree with just about everything you said. Sure collectors are supposed to collect what I like, but on the same token with that 10,000 to 11,000 he will sell the coins for you think he would be able to find some real nice coins he would like. Sure you would like to have every silver eagle in the set, but if you took this one out you could buy many other great sets in other series! You could put a real nice qtr set together from 1932 on.... I would go for a more challenging set, not just one I could find complete and nice on ebay any day of the week...

[EZ_E]

Another consideration:

 

The ASE will most likely "turn" in the original holder if not slabbed. The gold will only be slighly reactive due to the copper content.

[cladking]

 

By the way, I can understand the viewpoint of "classic" collectors. The coins minted now are more or less commodities that rise and fall like stock. It takes some of the fun from the hobby.

 

There are a lot of surprises left in the moderns. The classics are well studied and well documented but the moderns are hardly well known. It's true that there are gaps in the grade distribution of more of the classics because mintages were usually smaller and many fewer coins propotionately have survived. There are "gaps" in the date/ mint mark distribution. While the classics were often minted within closer tolerances they have had many decades to acquire various surface characteristics. Dies were less uniform but varieties are still quite common (at until the mid-'80's).

 

In some sense it may be true that moderns are more like commodities but in most it would seem they have fewer such characteristics.

 

 

It might make sense to sell a collection in which one has substantial profit but it's difficult to understand why a collector would sell a coin from a collection just because the coin has increased in value or might come down.

[ldhair]

Another consideration:

 

The ASE will most likely "turn" in the original holder if not slabbed. The gold will only be slighly reactive due to the copper content.

Maybe I'm just lucky but I have never had an ASE turn in the original holder. Many have had problems after being slabbed. Just to be clear here, I'm talking proofs.

 

PCGS was doing some reserch on this so I"m sure we will never get an answer on the results.

[midwest]

Another consideration:

 

The ASE will most likely "turn" in the original holder if not slabbed. The gold will only be slighly reactive due to the copper content.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Although may I ask what you mean by "turn"? I'm going to assume milkspots and such. There had been problems with slabbed silver eagles going bad so I doubt the slab offers fool proof protection. While I don't have any numbers there are reports of the ASE going bad in TPG slabs. Enough that a good educated guess would be there is something going wrong with the coins themselves.

 

What would be nice is if NGC or PCGS would have numbers on the amount of ASE where the coin was returned to the service and the submitter was compensated. It would be great if both services had the numbers and even better if they had notes so they knew what was wrong. This way we could make sure our number is accurate and only coins that went bad. Not coins that were compensated due to being overgraded. However since I don't see that many folks actually sending an ASE due to grade it would most likely be about it turning in the holder.

 

Now if NGC or PCGS doesn't have such numbers it would be nice if they compiled them over a 6-12 month period. NGC might want to take note of this as it would be a very nice service to the numismatic community. If we had hard date then we would know wether ASE readily change in the holder and weather it is a large problem. I'm mentioning NGC spcifically in the last part here since they might just be reading this and due to fees and turnaround may have slabbed more ASE. Of course if someone knew for sure that would be helpful. Since obviously if NGC or PCGS has certified more coins and it's enough to be a very large amount we would definetly want those numbers the most. Of course both numbers would be benificial since if percentage wise there is an unusually high number of coins that have turned inone companies holder or the other that would be a whole new can of worms. While it may be easily explained away it mighyt not be and the results could be bad since you don't want any holder turning coins.

 

Now if the service wanted to really look into it they might want to contact those who sent coins in due to problems and see how they stored them,etc. again the numbers might show something.

 

it would also be helpful if ANACS and ICG would also give the info if they had it. Of course the numbers of ASE they have certified would probably be less. The only problem is ICG has time and time again refused to issue population info which would be needed for such numbers. The number of coins compensated for turning would be useless without population info and even at best make the numbers questionable since we wouldn't be able to see a trend in the number of coins turning.

 

In summary info from the four grading services on number of ASE compensated for turning would be helpful. We would also need pop report info which would become problematic if ICG did decide to give numbers. Of course all we would need to know is total number graded for each date. However they have shown an unwillingness to do so. Take all this info and see if coins turning are a problem in TPG holders and see if any one company has an unusal percentage next to the number of ASE certified. all of this plus a scientific investigation into why ASE change would be a great benefit to the numismatic community. PCGS has said they are doing something like this. If all the reputable services would partner on this we would all benifet. Plus the services have money at stake so they have incentive!

[akent]

I have three MS69 ASE's from PCGS that have grown milky spots on them since slabbing...None from NGC...

None of my slabbed ASE proofs have changed..

 

Are you saying they will compensate you for these problems?

Kent

[cybersharque-migration]

Okay, I'll take a chance on this...

 

It's a bullion coin. Granted, it's a pretty bullion coin. And I'll confess that I even bought a 1996 ASE off of Ebay because that's the year my son was born and he asked for it...

 

But it's a bullion coin for mercy's sakes....

 

Would anyone care for a nice, fresh Admiral deWinter?

[AlixTCat]

Where do we draw the line on coin vs. bullion? It is minted. It has a dollar value. It has a date. Just because it doesn't commonly circulate, what, exactly makes it not worthy of collecting? They're pretty "coins" and prettier than what many collect in the way of "real" coins. They seem to hold their value pretty well. Is it just that "1 oz .999 Silver" on the back that makes some squeamish of calling them "coins?" Maybe they ought to take that off so we can rightfully call them "coins?" !

Interested in your views, as long as you are not a modern basher.

 

Jonathan

[cybersharque-migration]

Drawing the line is tricky, I agree. My point is that bullion coins' raison d'etre is to facilitate ownership of precious metals as such. And yes, more than a few of my SAEs have ended up in a crucible and been transformed into jewelry by my lovely wife. A bunch more are sitting at my IRA manager's vault, since I'm convinced that silver is going to continue to appreciate. I have cashed out of gold bullion for now and closed out of my semi-numismatic gold coins as well. I don't hold any true numismatic gold coins....because they are not Morgans. :-) and I derive more aesthetic pleasure from a half-dozen sweet Morgans than I do from one Saint....though I may break down and purchase a nice $10 Indian when and if the current nutsiness in the gold market simmers down.

 

I'm not a modern basher.....and if I were, I would make an exception for the SAE because it's the only coin in current US production that depicts Lady Liberty. But it does not change the fact that its real reason for existing is to facilitate holding silver bullion, which means that it exists to melt down and turn into something else.

[Oldtrader3]

The "nutsiness" in the classic gold market is getting nutsier! Any nice Indian series coin ($2-1/2, $5, $10) that is properly graded is selling in auctions for multiples of sheet. As are $3 gold coins. I have had a want list for a year on several of these coins and can not even find decent ones, let alone for near sheet price. However, I bought a MS65, '16-S Saint a couple weeks ago near retail whose nice surfaces will knock your socks off!

 

Better date Barber halfs in MS64/65 are multiples of sheet also. There is one coming up in an auction that I need and I probably will have to pay 2-3X retail for it. The market for nice, scarce material is very strong.

 

I believe it will stay that way as long as we have fiat currency backed by Chinese Central Bank debt ownership?