Gold Indian Question..........

[SilverDollarMan]

Thx 4 looking! I know I have said that " I don't like yellow"..but I do like the incuse Indian gold coins.I'm looking to buy a gold Indian coin but I want the star rim and the incuse design. What year(s) and denomination am I looking 4? thx

 

ps if anyone has one 4 sale, plz pm me.

[DaveG]

As a quick look at CoinFacts.com or your Red Book would tell you, Bela Lyon Pratt's incuse quarter eagles and half eagles were minted from 1908 to 1929.

[BankNote1]

One thing I would do is make sure the gold Indian you buy is slabed by NGC, PCGS or at least ANACS. There are many counterfeits and also cleaned ones floating around!

[EZ_E]

One thing I would do is make sure the gold Indian you buy is slabed by NGC, PCGS or at least ANACS. There are many counterfeits and also cleaned ones floating around!

 

Not to mention sliders.

[SilverDollarMan]

As a quick look at CoinFacts.com or your Red Book would tell you, Bela Lyon Pratt's incuse quarter eagles and half eagles were minted from 1908 to 1929.

 

I looked the the red book till it turned blue b4 I posted this. I found some general info on wire rim, motto, no motto but it really don't tell which dates have the above stated features...thx

[DaveG]

Gary,

 

Sorry to hear that.

 

Perhaps you need to get a new copy of the Red Book. It sounds like yours is missing a few pages.

[jtryka]

Thx 4 looking! I know I have said that " I don't like yellow"..but I do like the incuse Indian gold coins.I'm looking to buy a gold Indian coin but I want the star rim and the incuse design. What year(s) and denomination am I looking 4? thx

 

ps if anyone has one 4 sale, plz pm me.

 

It sounds like you are looking for a coin that does not exist. The Indian $5 and $2.50 had an incuse design, but a reeded edge. The Indian $10 did not have an incuse design, but did have a rim of stars (46 stars from 1907-1911 and 48 stars from 1912-1933). So I guess you will probably have to buy 2 coins to get what you want.

[SilverDollarMan]

Gary,

 

Sorry to hear that.

 

Perhaps you need to get a new copy of the Red Book. It sounds like yours is missing a few pages.

 

Sorry bro, ur right I was looking in 2005 Coin Digest! I ordered my new Redbook but it hasn't arrived yet.

[jom]

There are many counterfeits and also cleaned ones floating around!

 

Not to mention sliders.

 

And many of the above ARE in slabs. Better learn to grade these as they are some of the most difficult to do so.

 

jom

[Oldtrader3]

I am with Jom. The incluse Indian series are not for the uninitiated. Many of the MS coins in slabs are overgraded (or AU), dirty and beat up. The half-eagles, in particular, are usually full of small marks and have poor luster.

[BankNote1]

IMO, the $2 1/2 and $5 Indians are one of the hardest of all U.S. coins to grade esp. in MS. Grading aside, I have never had any trouble buying or selling slabed Indians. You don't have to be an expert to add an inexpensive piece or two to your collection!

[jom]

The half-eagles, in particular, are usually full of small marks and have poor luster.

 

It is quite possible the Indian Half-Eagle are the WORST made coins in the history of the mint. I can go for months trying to find a decent coin for my set. Then when you see one it will be a 09-D, 11-P or 15-P. Finding a nice AU 11-D that has any luster is almost impossible.

 

Story: At the last LB show (maybe it was the Feburary show) some big dealer had a number of rarities one of which was a 09-O. I don't remember the grade off hand but it was probably MS64. The coin actually had luster...in fact it had luster THROUGH OUT the fields, which is something you almost NEVER see in even the more common dates. Asking Price: $325,000. I said I'd get back to him....in 300 years.

 

jom

[SilverDollarMan]

I'm finding a lot of AU 55 and 58's NGC of course but no mint state yet. Is almost unc a good place 2 start or should I try 4 a MS coin? Taking into consideration the "sliders", I would have to go at least what, MS-63 or 64 to be safe or not? TIA

[jom]

Taking into consideration the "sliders", I would have to go at least what, MS-63 or 64 to be safe or not? TIA

 

"To be safe" you need to look at a lot of coins before you buy. I've noticed, for instance, the VAST majority of NGC graded $5s in the AU to low MS range are lusterless crapola. I do NOT know why this is exactly but just attend a few auctions and look at the lots. You'll know what I mean eventually.

 

This doesn't mean that NGC can't grade. I mean, they aren't responsible for the coins that are sent to them for grading but it seems they've received boatloads of these (probably from Europe) over the past 5/6 years for grading. It's not as if PCGS is any better but their coins seem to go for a premium so some of the more PQ coins end up in their holders. Often with inflated grades.

 

I had Evil Marguli look at my $5s a few weeks agao and he thought they were all AU (they were graded MS 62 and 63). He isn't exactly an expert in these but I agreed. That is how the services are grading these today: What used to be AU58 is now MS62. To get an AU grade the shoulder of the eagle needs to show the wear significantly and there needs to be clear circ marks. Some rubbing the field is not "good" enough anymore to lower the grade to AU with today's standards. Since these often lack luster that isn't always a sure bet with MS coins BUT I've noticed is that luster area above the eagle isn't there the coins usually drops to AU.

 

I know this is all rather difficult but you NEED to look at a ton of these coins before you buy. If not, I can guarentee you'll get screwed. Trust me...I know.

 

jom

[Oldtrader3]

If you look long enough, you will see the full range. MS62 Indians that are actually MS and MS63 coins that are actually AU58. You might even eventually find a TPG AU58 that is AU58! The only thing that I disagree with Jom on is PCGS grading of sliders. They are just as bad as NGC. I would guess that the last (50) PCGS MS62 graded $2-1/2, $5 and $10 Indians that I have looked at were actually AU55/58.

[jom]

The only thing that I disagree with Jom on is PCGS grading of sliders. They are just as bad as NGC.

 

You either read my post wrong OR I wrote it wrong...probably the latter. Anyway, we DO agree as I've stated much of what is accepted as MS used to be AU some years ago and both TPG's are "promoting" this. The only difference I see in the services is that there are MANY more coins graded by NGC it seems and much of it is garbage. They simply must have gotten a glut of submissions at one point...possibly from a European hoard or some such. Look at a typical listing at Heritage. The vast majority of graded coins are NGC. That's just my observation however....

 

jom

[Oldtrader3]

Jom: I probably read your post wrong. Anyhow, we are in sync.

[SilverDollarMan]

Thx jom, ot and others, I got a better understanding already!

[SilverDollarMan]

Dave, I finally got the 2006 Red Book, I see everything about the 1/4 and half eagle indians..except the part about the edge. All I found in the red book is the designer, the weight and the diameter, nothing about the edge stars. What page is that on? thx in advance

[jtryka]

I don't have the 06 redbook, but in my 04, in the first section where it lists the specifications, it will say that the edge is reeded. If you look at the section for the $10 Indian, you will see that is states the edge has 46 stars from 1907-1911 and 48 stars from 1912-1933. Hope this helps.

[Oldtrader3]

Adding to Jeff's comments. The reeded edge on the quarter eagle and half eagle Indian is not like any other reeded US coin. The reeds are fairly widely spaced and don't feel like reeding.

[SilverDollarMan]

Thx 2 both OT3 and Jtryka. I finally got it! hehe

[SilverDollarMan]

It's hard 4 me to admit to 2 mistakes in 1 post but I found the "Stared Edge" facts in the RB. My mistake was.........I was lokking at the $5 and $2 1/2, not the $10. Sorry bout the stupidity. This board and the pps ROCK!