Perhaps the Most Unpopular Question On the Forum... 1 1

[Malamute]

I am the unlucky owner of about 6000 Civil War era penny's. They are heavily corroded to the point that nothing can be read about them. I have scrubbed a few to reveal detailed markings with dates 1812, 1831 and 1850. I have so many at this point I just want to see what a few are. Will E-zest or MS70 remove the hard to remove green corrosion? Is there a single dip cleaner for this? Is there something else you recommend? I have tried 30+ hours of peroxide, ketchup, vinegar and none of these solutions do anything. 

 

[Coinbuf]

Olive oil or mineral oil soak over several months can help, but the reality is that most are too far gone to be helped in a meaningful way.   E-zest will turn them pink like the one in the middle of your photo, MS70 will likely do little but will turn the copper blue or purple in color if there is any copper that is free of the corrosion.   Household substances like the ketchup and vinegar are acidic and can turn the copper pink like E-zest will.   I would take a few that look the least corroded and try the olive or mineral oil soak, you should check this every few weeks as the oil will evaporate and can get rancid if left too long.   Just refresh the oil at least once a month and keep checking.

[Sandon]

   These large cents (minted from 1793 to 1857 and generally not considered "Civil War era") are severely corroded. They are likely metal detector finds that were recovered from the ground. The corrosion products are chemical compounds that include copper that was once part of the coin metal. Unfortunately, the chemical reactions that caused the corrosion cannot be reversed, and the coins cannot be restored to anything approaching their original appearance. Removal of the corrosion will likely leave behind a rough and pitted surface. Decades ago, I tried soaking corroded copper coins in olive oil, sometimes for as long as several years, and there was little or no improvement in their appearance.

[powermad5000]

Too bad this is the fate of these coins left to degrade in that bag! Unfortunately, once this happens, there is no turning the clock back. From a grading perspective, old coppers go from MS surfaces to environmental damage to corrosion in that order. Once there is a small spot that dinged for environmental damage, that is the point of no return. Even trying to treat that small spot that began can maybe help keep it from getting any worse, but the effect from that small spot will always be visible on the surface. If there are any in that bag that maybe worth trying to make an attempt to at least stabilize it some, I have heard that olive oil can help, but will never fully restore the surface. And the process can last for years to get any kind of improvement. Copper is highly reactive to the environment unlike the more stable silver or gold (even the latter can develop problems if treated badly).

Being you have so many of these, in those conditions, I would be looking to divest myself of many of those as their value in that state will never really increase in this lifetime.

And I would say the most unpopular question on the forum is "Is my damaged coin an error?" 

Edited October 11 by powermad5000

[Henri Charriere]

Melt 'em, and no one will be the wiser.  Better yet, incorporate them in an art project and sell the work for gazillion of dollars.  That seems to be the American way!  

[Malamute]

On 10/11/2024 at 5:47 PM, powermad5000 said:

Too bad this is the fate of these coins left to degrade in that bag! Unfortunately, once this happens, there is no turning the clock back. From a grading perspective, old coppers go from MS surfaces to environmental damage to corrosion in that order. Once there is a small spot that dinged for environmental damage, that is the point of no return. Even trying to treat that small spot that began can maybe help keep it from getting any worse, but the effect from that small spot will always be visible on the surface. If there are any in that bag that maybe worth trying to make an attempt to at least stabilize it some, I have heard that olive oil can help, but will never fully restore the surface. And the process can last for years to get any kind of improvement. Copper is highly reactive to the environment unlike the more stable silver or gold (even the latter can develop problems if treated badly).

Being you have so many of these, in those conditions, I would be looking to divest myself of many of those as their value in that state will never really increase in this lifetime.

And I would say the most unpopular question on the forum is "Is my damaged coin an error?" 

The bags did not cause corrosion, they were buried in the ground for 200 years. To give some backstory, I own family land that has never been for sale. I have the deed from an English Lord that's been passed through the family. In the early 1990's my father was doing some work with a helper around a stone house with significant civil war history and came across 6 large clay pots buried full of these pennies. I have 17 large bank bags each around 45-50 pounds of coins.

My father had a friend who worked at the Smithsonian and was famous for carrying the Hope Diamond in his pocket on a flight from London to the USA. He invited us to the archive restoration dept and experts told us the pots were likely buried by soldiers to eventually make bullets.

The coins corrosive state has not changed in 30+ years. I have managed through tremendous physical labor to clean a few and there are markings still. I have never used E-Zest, MS70 or any cleaner like that... I had thought about buying some but wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting money. Youtube is full of videos using these cleaners but none have tried penny's, only silver coins.

I have no interest in selling them, I just want to know what they are.  

 

[Malamute]

On 10/11/2024 at 6:05 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Melt 'em, and no one will be the wiser.  Better yet, incorporate them in an art project and sell the work for gazillion of dollars.  That seems to be the American way!  

If copper was worth what it was during Covid, that might be a viable option but I love history and finding a way to clean some is more interesting to me than trashing them. I thought about cleaning some and donating them to schools for education. 

[Malamute]

On 10/11/2024 at 5:47 PM, powermad5000 said:

Too bad this is the fate of these coins left to degrade in that bag! Unfortunately, once this happens, there is no turning the clock back. From a grading perspective, old coppers go from MS surfaces to environmental damage to corrosion in that order. Once there is a small spot that dinged for environmental damage, that is the point of no return. Even trying to treat that small spot that began can maybe help keep it from getting any worse, but the effect from that small spot will always be visible on the surface. If there are any in that bag that maybe worth trying to make an attempt to at least stabilize it some, I have heard that olive oil can help, but will never fully restore the surface. And the process can last for years to get any kind of improvement. Copper is highly reactive to the environment unlike the more stable silver or gold (even the latter can develop problems if treated badly).

Being you have so many of these, in those conditions, I would be looking to divest myself of many of those as their value in that state will never really increase in this lifetime.

And I would say the most unpopular question on the forum is "Is my damaged coin an error?" 

The green corrosion is definitely a mint error! 

[Sandon]

   It is unfortunate that these coins are so severely impaired, as this would otherwise be a significant hoard of large cents. If there are any that can be identified as dated 1793 (any of three different design types, two of which are unique to that year and may be identifiable even with illegible dates), 1799 or 1804 they could have significant value even with extensive corrosion. Other pieces with readable dates 1794 through 1814, 1821, 1823 and 1857 may also have some value. (There are a few other specific varieties of certain dates that have value even in low grades, but they would likely be unattributable if severely corroded.)  The others are likely "junk box" pieces for which a dealer might ask a dollar or two and have a hard time getting it. The "Red Book" to which I referred in a reply to your topic about the NGC grading process can provide you with important basic information about these coins.

   I would avoid any process that leaves exposed raw orange copper as on the piece shown on your last post, as this is undesirable. (Based on the style of the reverse lettering, I think that the coin is dated 1837, 38, or 39.)

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/11/2024 at 7:28 PM, Malamute said:

If copper was worth what it was during Covid, that might be a viable option but I love history and finding a way to clean some is more interesting to me than trashing them. I thought about cleaning some and donating them to schools for education. 

Based on what I have read here, they are not, and probably never will be in a suitable enough condition for display or presentation purposes.  Pardon my flippant manner.  Truth be told, money or the prospect of acquiring filthy sucre, has never been the prime mover in my life.  It has not, does not, nor will it ever motivate me to do anything.  I fancy myself an artist.  In these pages you will read of my constantly harping on what I shall do if I win the lottery, which for those who may be unaware of it, shall be raided to $5.00 a ticket.  Rather, I would do the Honorable thing and help others make their dreams come true.  I am perfectly satisfied with being a pauper.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Regardless of condition, there are very few (maybe no other) collectors that can say they found 6000 large cents in the ground.  Hell, you might be the luckiest collector on the boards. You have a mystery to solve. What dates and varieties do you have?  I envy your ability to enjoy a cup of coffee and attribute old copper coins.  

Edited October 12 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[ldhair]

Really cool find. I would pick out a few and give olive oil a try. It's a slow process but I can't think of anything else worth trying.

[Malamute]

On 10/11/2024 at 9:51 PM, ldhair said:

Really cool find. I would pick out a few and give olive oil a try. It's a slow process but I can't think of anything else worth trying.

Maybe I should try a large plastic tub cleaning some with my pressure washer. The turbo nozzle cleans pretty well. At this point I'll try anything. I hate to destroy them given how old they are but some may have to be destroyed in the process of experimentation. 

[Malamute]

On 10/11/2024 at 9:12 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Based on what I have read here, they are not, and probably never will be in a suitable enough condition for display or presentation purposes.  Pardon my flippant manner.  Truth be told, money or the prospect of acquiring filthy sucre, has never been the prime mover in my life.  It has not, does not, nor will it ever motivate me to do anything.  I fancy myself an artist.  In these pages you will read of my constantly harping on what I shall do if I win the lottery, which for those who may be unaware of it, shall be raided to $5.00 a ticket.  Rather, I would do the Honorable thing and help others make their dreams come true.  I am perfectly satisfied with being a pauper.

PowerBall on Saturday is 364 Million... if you win would you consider spending half on Trump silver coins? 

[powermad5000]

On 10/11/2024 at 6:26 PM, Malamute said:

The bags did not cause corrosion

I know this. I just meant that is where they finally ended up and are now a pile of corroded copper cents. Interesting land you have there, btw.

[powermad5000]

On 10/11/2024 at 9:16 PM, Malamute said:

Maybe I should try a large plastic tub cleaning some with my pressure washer.

This might be the worst idea so far. The high pressure will definitely cause blowout of the porous copper. That porosity is the remaining structural copper that hasn't fully corroded. A pressure washer will surely cause those weak surface structures to give way.

I work on old cars in addition to this hobby and my daily driver as well. Take my word, on my old rusty minivan, I had to stop taking it to the self car wash because the pressure washer was literally blowing rusty chunks of metal right off the fenders and quarters and making holes in them. It's way too aggressive to use on these coins.

Coppers are the toughest to deal with when it comes to this. As I suggested in another response, if you have the time, maybe carefully try to find out what you have, try the olive oil, but I would let go of any that are simply just too corroded to do anything with.