What constitutes a Mint 'Error,' now that >90% of Proof coins are flawless? 1 1

[Khunsakee]

I have a 2019-S Reverse Proof Silver Eagle with errors on the reverse  Escutcheon (shield.) There are three cracks, emanating from a single point at the third and fourth Paleways (stripes) and, an overstrike(?) on the Chief. I also have two 2016 gold Walking Liberty half dollars that, both, have the same two, tiny, errors above the "OF." Is there any credit given to having two, successive, coins minted with the same errored die? 

With the current error detection capabilities of the U.S. Mint, unless grading services revise, downward, what is considered an error then, error coins are, truly, a thing of the past.

I am unable to upload photos but these are small and look like dings and scratches to the naked eye.

 

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.

   Unfortunately, it is very difficult to advise you about your coins without clear images of each side of the coins showing what you are seeing as "mint errors". If they "look like dings and scratches", there is a very good chance that that is what they are. Sometimes, even proof coins incur slight damage during the packaging and distribution process.

   Just because something about a coin looks unusual to you, you should not jump to the conclusion that the coin exhibits a "mint error". The vast majority of coins posted by new collectors as "mint errors" on this forum are either post-mint damage or minor anomalies better referred to as quality control issues that are quite common and of little or no value to knowledgeable collectors. Regarding proof coins for which collectors now pay a substantial premium, errors should be non-existent.

   Mint errors are an advanced topic in numismatics, and you should have a good grasp of more basic topics, such as the history and types of U.S. coinage, grading, and how coins are made, before you attempt to collect them. You must also learn about the various types of mint errors and how they occur. You can't just call something an "error". Is it, for example, an off-center strike? a planchet lamination? a strikethrough? a brockage? what?

   See the following articles for introductory information on mint errors:

   Learn Grading: What Is a Mint Error? — Part 1 | NGC (ngccoin.com)

   Learn Grading: What Is a Mint Error? — Part 2 | NGC (ngccoin.com)

   Learn Grading: What Is a Mint Error? — Part 3 | NGC (ngccoin.com)

   Learn Grading: What Is a Mint Error? — Part 4 | NGC (ngccoin.com)

   Various articles on the NGC website in the series entitled "Mint Error Coin Chronicles" (Enter this term in the search bar.)   

   The site error-ref.com is intended to provide a comprehensive listing of mint error types, with images and descriptions.

[Khunsakee]

On 9/15/2024 at 12:45 AM, Sandon said:

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.

   Unfortunately, it is very difficult to advise you about your coins without clear images of each side of the coins showing what you are seeing as "mint errors". If they "look like dings and scratches", there is a very good chance that that is what they are. Sometimes, even proof coins incur slight damage during the packaging and distribution process.

 

 

Thank you for your prompt reply.I'm not sure what I did wrong the first time so, likewise, I don't know what I did right, this time.

You can see just how small these errors, are. But, these two coins seem to have been minted, one after the other.

The "dings" on the W.L.Halves aren't divots, they are flat and shiny. These 3 photos are the same coin with different light sources. 

 

 

Close-up of cracked die error. I suspect, shortly this coin was minted the die crack grew, in size, to a point, at which, coins were removed and the die was replaced

Roughly showing the direction of the cracks.

Close-up showing the bottom crack, transversing the edge of the Escutcheon.

I think this is an overstrike, in the Chief.

 

I've been told, these errors are too small and insignificant to be graded "Error Coins."  Since, the Mint has found how to eliminate and prevent "normal" error coins from getting out, I think that the Grading Services should come up with newer standards, as to, what makes a Mint Error, a Mint Error.

These are small errors but, they're about as big of an error as we're ever going to get from the Mint; anymore.

[J P M]

Welcome, It looks like you have found a couple that got away. Just so you know Die Cracks are not considered errors. In my opinion the damage is too small to be a collectable and thus would not be worth anything extra. It is a cool find 

[Sandon]

   Please always post clear, cropped full images of each side of a coin about which you have questions, not just closeups.

   A mint error of any significance should be visible to the naked eye and not need magnification. Die varieties (another advanced topic) should require no more than 10x magnification (attributors say no more than 7x) to be considered significant. When you use higher magnification to look at coins, you are likely to see something you will think is an "error" on most of the coins you examine.

  The small depressions on the rim of the 2016-W Walking Liberty gold commemoratives are likely strikethroughs of a bit of stray material on the die, the more apparent one an earlier strike than the second one, where the material had been pulverized. These are fairly common and aren't considered significant unless they are considerably larger. (These coins were collector's issues but are not proof strikings.)

  The depression on the shield of the proof American Silver Eagle bullion coin is likely also a small strikethrough, about which I have the same comments. The depressed line on the side of the shield appears to be a thin scratch that would have occurred after the coin was struck. Note the displaced metal along its sides. Die cracks are entirely raised, not depressed inside. The related areas in the field are too out of focus to see clearly but are likely also thin scratches.

[RWB]

The OP's question suggests equivalence of "error" and "damage."

This is false and another misconception promoted by thieves claiming damaged coins are "valuable US Mint errors."

Edited Monday at 06:28 PM by RWB

[Henri Charriere]

Thieves???

[Khunsakee]

On 9/15/2024 at 11:32 AM, Sandon said:

   Please always post clear, cropped full images of each side of a coin about which you have questions, not just closeups.

   A mint error of any significance should be visible to the naked eye and not need magnification. Die varieties (another advanced topic) should require no more than 10x magnification (attributors say no more than 7x) to be considered significant. When you use higher magnification to look at coins, you are likely to see something you will think is an "error" on most of the coins you examine.

  The small depressions on the rim of the 2016-W Walking Liberty gold commemoratives are likely strikethroughs of a bit of stray material on the die, the more apparent one an earlier strike than the second one, where the material had been pulverized. These are fairly common and aren't considered significant unless they are considerably larger. (These coins were collector's issues but are not proof strikings.)

  The depression on the shield of the proof American Silver Eagle bullion coin is likely also a small strikethrough, about which I have the same comments. The depressed line on the side of the shield appears to be a thin scratch that would have occurred after the coin was struck. Note the displaced metal along its sides. Die cracks are entirely raised, not depressed inside. The related areas in the field are too out of focus to see clearly but are likely also thin scratches.

Thanks for ALL of the replies.I have ordered a Macro lens and hope to add proper photos in the very near future. I can't tell if the "cracks" are real or, if they are spider web (maybe with spider) strikethroughs. But, I will say, with all due respect, they are, absolutely, not scratches.

[powermad5000]

On 9/15/2024 at 4:55 AM, Khunsakee said:

I think this is an overstrike

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Overstrikes are when a coin is struck over a coin that has already been struck. This is different than a coin that is double struck which is the same coin struck twice in a row (typically with a minor rotation). Overstrikes can be double denomination such as a dime struck over a cent, or can be of a coin from one era struck over a coin from an earlier era such as there is a known Washington Quarter struck over a Barber Quarter. There is no overstrike in this situation.

Being you posted three coins in the same thread which has confused the poop out of me, of all the photos, I see one with a series of small strikethroughs which add up to be enough to be considered as a mint error as they are present in a clean field, but other than that, I feel you are digging deep using high mag to look at things that are too insignificant to be considered an error and some appears to be just damage. I can't tell you which is what on which coin because there's too much packed into this thread for me to tell what is what.

As far as changing grading standards for mint errors, I believe the current standard to be acceptable as things very minor should NOT be considered as errors and most of this is already screened out from receiving such designation.

 

Edited Monday at 06:29 PM by powermad5000