NGC Guide vs Varities prices 1 1

[Ben Dimhover]

This is not the first time this has happened; I looked at the NGC Guide price for a 1989 $1 Silver Eagle MS70 (First Strike), no other designation (I don’t know what the PL means in MSPL). It’s $1,425. Then click on VARIETIES. They’re all regular 1989 ASEs. But ALL the items listed are $4k - $6k. Please tell me there’s a logical explanation for this!?

Edited August 12 by Ben Dimhover

[powermad5000]

The PL in MSPL means Prooflike (Mint State Prooflike = MSPL). Prooflike coins are normally struck coins that feature a highly reflective surface somewhat resembling a proof coin strike but found on a normal issued strike.

Any of the high dollar ASE's are going to be MS 70 or MS 70 PL, or PF 70 UC for proof ones.

The rest of what you are seeing is what I call marketing gimmick stuff designed to promote the collecting of these ASE's. I may not be the best person to be speaking about this subject as I am officially jaded about the whole thing. I collected some of these for a bit until I realized they were making all of these crazy labels. John Mercanti signed, Angela Buchanan signed, early releases, first strike, first day of issue, and now it has exploded into not only the labels but also the bullion coins as well. Proof, reverse proof, burnished, Type 1, Type 2...and the labeling went absolutely bat s-you-know-what. Advance releases, Biden/Harris label, Flag label, Star label, Red label, Emergency Issue, Heraldic Eagle, US Mint Engraver Series, Last day of issue, 50 state series, 1 of 1,000 Leonard Buckley (Banknote and Coin Designer), and on and on and on. And THEN, throw the different mints into the mix and you have a cluster f.

So, I stopped collecting these because MS 70 is MS 70 and PF 70 UC is PF 70 UC. I am not going to pay an extra $200 or more because someone signed the label or because it was struck on the first day. To me, in the end it is still just one ounce of bullion once it is outside of the plastic.

As I said, I may not be the right person to be speaking on this subject.

Edited August 12 by powermad5000

[Sandon]

   The "PL" designation, for prooflike is a grading qualifier for non-proof coins, not a die variety attribution that would be listed on VarietyPlus. Other such qualifiers include DPL for deep prooflike (DMPL at PCGS), CAM or UCAM (DCAM at PCGS) for proof coins, BN, RB, or RD for copper coins; and FB, FS, FT and FH as strike designations for specific series of coins.

[Ben Dimhover]

@powermad5000 and @Sandon thank you for the info and for your comments. Any info on the pricing question I mentioned by chance?

[powermad5000]

On 8/15/2024 at 9:44 PM, Ben Dimhover said:

Any info on the pricing question I mentioned by chance?

It depends on exactly what you have in what grade and apparently what label and holder it is in. 

[Sandon]

    Having determined what you are referring to in the NGC Price Guide, I'll attempt to answer.  There are apparently some collectors who collect holders bearing these specialty labels even though they all contain the same common bullion coin in the same grade and are willing to pay a high premium for them. I don't know from what auction or other sale data these list prices are based or how recent they are and find them questionable. (You might want to place your inquiry on the "Ask NGC/NCS" forum for a response from the NGC staff, but I doubt that they will shed much further light on this situation.) 

   I collect coins, not grading service labels, and do not care about what label a coin's holder bears. American Silver Eagle bullion coins (ASEs) have become more of a "collector's item" in the generic sense than a numismatic item, and they are attracting those who care about such things.

  For that matter, why does a common 1989 American Silver Eagle bullion coin (ASE) (over 5.2 million minted and most saved as issued) have a list price of $1,425 in the NGC Price Guide with a standard label if the coin has been third-party graded MS 70 but only $100 if so graded MS 69 and $38.50 to $50 in all other uncirculated grades?  Although NGC has graded a total of 151,753 1989 ASEs, only 2,271 (about 1.5%) of these pieces graded MS 70, while 146,490 (over 96.5%) graded MS 69. (An additional three pieces were given the "PL" designation, all graded MS 69.) There is in fact hardly any noticeable difference between the typical coin graded MS 69, which NGC describes as "a fully struck coin with nearly imperceptible imperfections" and one graded MS 70, which NGC defines as "a coin with no post-production imperfections at 5x [low] magnification".  NGC Coin Grading Scale | About Coin Grades | NGC.  However, wealthy collectors who want to build high ranking registry sets are willing to pay such premiums for a coin in a holder with a "70" on the label notwithstanding the absence of any meaningful difference.  

   There really is no logical explanation for these circumstances. It's just how things are nowadays.

[samclemen3991]

@Sandon.  thank you for that information regarding 69/70 coins.  awhile back I was going to start a collection of State Quarters.  My original target was PF 70 silver coins.  Unfortunately I could not find a coin I considered perfect and so I gave up.  I did not know there was a magnification factor involved.  Once again, thanks.  James

[Ben Dimhover]

On 8/15/2024 at 11:30 PM, powermad5000 said:

It depends on exactly what you have in what grade and apparently what label and holder it is in. 

Mine is a 1989 ASE 1D NES MS70. I’m having crossed over to PCGS at the moment. I was trying to get the approx value for it and that’s were i ran across this situation.

[Coinbuf]

On 8/18/2024 at 9:19 PM, Ben Dimhover said:

Mine is a 1989 ASE 1D NES MS70. I’m having crossed over to PCGS at the moment. I was trying to get the approx value for it and that’s were i ran across this situation.

I hope you filled out the form correctly, from the PCGS submission guideline page:

[Ben Dimhover]

On 8/19/2024 at 12:34 AM, Coinbuf said:

I hope you filled out the form correctly, from the PCGS submission guideline page:

You and me both. I did my best to follow the instructions. I don’t know what the 1D means on the old holder though. Do you?

[Coinbuf]

On 8/19/2024 at 2:55 PM, Ben Dimhover said:

You and me both. I did my best to follow the instructions. I don’t know what the 1D means on the old holder though. Do you?

I don't know for sure, my assumption is it stands for first day, but again I don't know how that (or any of the label designations for these bullion coins) translates to what PCGS uses on their label.

[VKurtB]

On 8/18/2024 at 11:19 PM, Ben Dimhover said:

Mine is a 1989 ASE 1D NES MS70. I’m having crossed over to PCGS at the moment. I was trying to get the approx value for it and that’s were i ran across this situation.

If it’s graded by NES, it is EXTRAORDINARILY unlikely to successfully cross to ANY grading firm.

[J P M]

On 8/20/2024 at 6:59 PM, VKurtB said:

If it’s graded by NES, it is EXTRAORDINARILY unlikely to successfully cross to ANY grading firm.

I agree with Kurt the coin may be nice, but it may not cross to PCGS standards.

 NES Numismatics Evaluation Service Third Party Coin Grading Service (coinauctionshelp.com)