1853 O 20 dollar gold piece my father left me this coin before he passed 1 year ago, how do I find the value of it, do I need to have it graded? If I were to sell it where would I sell it? If I kept it would the value go up in 20 years? Help appreciated 1 1

[Daddysgirl777!]

[Greenstang]

Welcome to the forum

I would definitely send it out to be graded, first to have it authenticated plus it would also give you a grade    
on which you can value your coin. What you have is at least a 4 figure coin depending on what it grades.

In the future, please do not ask your question in the heading, just use it to identify your coin then ask your question     
In the main block where you post your photos. Also please crop your photos.

[Mr.Bill347]

You coin is very valuable. Suggest you take it to an American Numismatic Association dealer and have it submitted for grading. It will be worth the effort!

[GoldFinger1969]

I'm having to guess from the pics, but it looks like it is definitely not in Mint State as it has the plastic covering lying against both sides of the coin (not sure why we ever used these 2x2's that lay against the coins's sides).

Assuming it is in the About Uncirculated (AU) bucket......$8-$10,000 is possible.

If it is in the Extra Fine (EF) bucket.....$5,000 give or take. 

I assume it has not been cleaned.

 

[Henri Charriere]

🐓: (speaking on behalf of my former Principal Keeper.)

Coins placed in what we refer to as stapled 2" x 2" cardboard flips were common years ago.

What I find curious is the lack of an adjectival grade and perhaps a price. It May have been "reholdered."

Based solely on the positive response elicited thus far, I would be inclined to suggest submission is adviseable, BUT I see no harm in extrucating it from its cheap holder and running a few close-up photos here for the benefit of those whose religious convictions mandate every coin most assuredly displays wear of one type or another, even if not clearly evident.  Do you believe you can do that?  What enquring minds would like to know is where the coin stands on the circulation vs. No circulation demarcation line. Either way, compared to 99.47% of the coins members are obliged to view on this Forum, thus far, you are in possession of a coin that promises a great deal, but is also capable of justifying its appeal. Tentatively speaking, the prognosis you have a small treasure in hand looks to be very promising.

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome to the forum!
 

The value of this coin will depend largely on its grade, and in my opinion it should be sent to a major TPG to authenticated, the process in which it will be professionally graded. I don't see anything that would suggest that the coin could be counterfeit, but many coins have been counterfeited over the years and most gold coins, especially ones of higher value should be authenticated for two purposes. One, to disprove that the said gold coin is a counterfeit by proving its authenticity, and secondly when it comes time to sell, a buyer has less worry about possibly buying a fake coin and also then has an idea of actual value by its grade. In laymen's terms, it makes selling it easier if it is graded.

Despite the complaints about the 2x2 cardboard flip it is in, while your photos could be better cropped, yes, I second the motion that this coin is most likely an AU. Whether or not it has been previously cleaned would be difficult to tell without the coin in hand and out of the flip. Unless a coin was harshly cleaned where damage is easily evident to the naked eye, we simply cannot tell if a coin is in a cleaned condition from just photos. This gold coin, however, even if it were to have its status as a details coin is still going to be worth significant premium.

As for grading, you could submit this to any TPG you like but if you use NGC, you can go through the steps on this website here under the Submit tab. However, being you intend to submit only this gold coin, it would be easier for you to submit it through one of the NGC authorized dealers which you can do a search for in your area if you go to the Resources tab and then go to Locate Dealers in the dropdown menu. An authorized dealer can submit this coin on your behalf along with other coins grouped together which will save you on membership costs, handling costs, and shipping to and from NGC.

If you were to sell this coin, you can try to sell it yourself on eBay but be prepared to get a 1099-K in the process. If it is officially graded, you would probably be better to sell it through one of the major auction houses such as Heritage Auctions, Stacks & Bowers, or Great Collections. I do not know if it is automatic that they report it as income and you get a 1099-K if you sell through any of the major auction houses. Maybe someone here who has sold a coin through one of them could enlighten us as to what happens post selling through one of them.

Hope this helps!

 

Edited July 17 by powermad5000

[Daddysgirl777!]

Thank you so much 

[Sandon]

    Welcome to the NGC chat board.

    You have already received mostly good advice from other forum members, but I'll add a few points.

     An 1853-O double eagle ($20 gold piece) is an example of a Liberty Head double eagle, a general design type issued from 1850 to 1907, with a single prototype piece dated 1849 held in the National Numismatic Collection of the Smithsonian Institution. The pieces dated 1849 through 1865 and some 1866-S are known as "Type 1" of three different Liberty Head types and are distinguished by not including the motto "In God We Trust" and having the denomination expressed as "TWENTY D.", although there are other differences in design details. The 1853-O had a lower mintage of 71,000 pieces and is considered a scarcer date in the series.

    All double eagles are specified to contain 0.9675 troy oz. of gold, so even the most common date contains $2,380.75 in gold value alone at today's gold price. See U.S. Gold Coin Melt Values | Gold Coin Prices | NGC Coin Melt Value. An 1853-O should be worth more, but how much depends on its condition, expressed by a grading opinion. It would be helpful to even estimate the coin's likely grade range if you could provide photos taken directly overhead that have been cropped to eliminate as much as possible of the surface surrounding the coin, like those of this 1863-S from my own collection, which NGC has since graded AU 53:

   Based on the current photos, your 1853-O appears to have Extremely Fine (XF 40-45) to lower end About Uncirculated (AU 50) details, with retail list (dealer selling) values as high or higher than those quoted by @GoldFinger1969, but it has an odd shine suggesting that it has in the past been polished or improperly "cleaned", which would constitute an impairment that would affect its value negatively. It is not possible to authenticate a coin entirely from photos, but nothing I can see suggests that is counterfeit.

   I agree that due to the potential value of this coin and the need for it to be professionally authenticated and graded that it makes sense to submit it to a third-party grading service, such as NGC, PCGS or CAC Grading. (It will likely cost around $100-200 to submit a coin of this nature and value level.)  As it could be difficult for you to attempt this yourself, you should locate a local reputable coin dealer who handles grading service submissions. NGC has a dealer directory at Find Coin Shops & Dealers | Coin Dealer Locator | NGC (ngccoin.com). I also recommend that the dealer by a member of the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG), which has a dealer directory at https://www.pngdealers.org/af_memberDirectory_Custom.asp or at least the American Numismatic Association (ANA), which has a directory at https://www.coin-dealer-directory.money.org/?_gl=1*1fln2vw*_gcl_au*NzgxODk5MDcxLjE3MjEyNTY4MDg. A reputable dealer should also be able to advise you as to your options for selling the coin should you choose to do so. You should get the grading service's opinion before selling it and consult applicable price guides.

   As for your inquiry as the coin's value 20 years from now, no one can predict the future. Coin values have tended to go up over time, but there have been notable exceptions. This coin's value could be affected by substantial shifts in the price of gold, which is at an historically high level.

[Numisdoclaw]

On 7/17/2024 at 5:07 PM, powermad5000 said:

you were to sell this coin, you can try to sell it yourself on eBay but be prepared to get a 1099-K in the process

The threshold for 2024 on ebay is no 1099 until $5,000 total for year it met or surpassed. It will then settle into its final and permanent threshold of $600 for the year. Wonderful congress. 

[Numisdoclaw]

If it is infact genuine, and you get it graded and it comes back AU55 or above, you are talking $15,000-$20,000. See recent auctions. This link shows both NGC and PCGS realized auction prices.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1853-o-20/8910

Just remember,  that would be a finished product, and as of now,  all you have is a raw, uncertified, and unverified coin.  Go find a authorized dealer in your area when you get the chance. Make sure it's a trusted one too. Congratulations on such a wonderful gift,  and my condolences about your father. 

Edited July 22 by Numisdoclaw

[ldhair]

I'll add a few things to the great answers already posted. Really nice coin.

It should be graded and put in a nice holder for protection. Once graded you will be able to narrow down what the value is. This will also help clear up any issues with the coin. That's important to folks buying coins of this value.

You could look up the major coin shows in your area. NGC may be at one close to you. It's nice to not have to ship it. The folks there will help you fill out the form. That can be a big help to those that have not done this before. There is probably a list on this site of the shows NGC will be at.

Already said but don't sell the coin before it's graded. At that point you have options of auction services to help sell the coin. Right now I'm a big fan of using Greatcollections.com. Good people to work with. 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/22/2024 at 3:18 PM, Numisdoclaw said:

If it is infact genuine, and you get it graded and it comes back AU55 or above, you are talking $15,000-$20,000.

That high ?  AU-58 I can see, but lower 50's probably less.

Nobody sees any cleaning, right ?

 

[powermad5000]

On 7/22/2024 at 8:25 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Nobody sees any cleaning, right ?

It is always difficult to tell from just a photo unless it was harshly/poorly cleaned or has a very unnatural color or shine to it. Otherwise, having the coin in hand for an examination is necessary to determine this. I cannot/will not say whether this one is or is not. Sometimes it takes tilting the coin to the light in the room for any hairlines to appear, especially if they are very light.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/22/2024 at 10:50 PM, powermad5000 said:

It is always difficult to tell from just a photo unless it was harshly/poorly cleaned or has a very unnatural color or shine to it. Otherwise, having the coin in hand for an examination is necessary to determine this. I cannot/will not say whether this one is or is not. Sometimes it takes tilting the coin to the light in the room for any hairlines to appear, especially if they are very light.

If someone here has a cleaned gold coin -- preferably a Liberty Head DE -- I would love to see pics straight-on lit that do NOT show the hairlines or cleaning lines....and then lighting angled or coin tilted to show those lines. 

I think that would be instructive for others, too....if it is possible.

 

Edited July 24 by GoldFinger1969

[Sandon]

@GoldFinger1969--Not all "cleaned" coins show significant hairlines, which are created by an abrasive "cleaning". Coins that exhibit unusual color, glossiness, dullness, or blotches, indicating chemical treatment, are also considered "cleaned". I don't have photos of "cleaned" coins taken from different angles, but NGC designated these two Liberty eagles (both AU details) "cleaned", the 1843-O being dull and the 1853 being glossy. (The OP's coin looks glossy, which can also indicate that the coin was polished.)

[GoldFinger1969]

Thanks Sandon.....how would one tell if a "glossy" or "shiny" appearance was a result of cleaning or just natural luster ?

[GoldFinger1969]

BTW, Daddysgirl, Heritage Auctions (easy to register) has the best archive of actual sales for coins like this.  Ebay only really good for more common coins and moderns.

[Sandon]

On 7/23/2024 at 10:46 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

.how would one tell if a "glossy" or "shiny" appearance was a result of cleaning or just natural luster ?

   They just look different! I can't explain it in words. You might want to look at gold coins that have been designated "cleaned" by the grading services at coin shows. The grading services aren't entirely consistent about this either. I thought that each of the eagles might numerically grade or might have been designated "cleaned".  I've seen other pieces with numerical grades that I regard as "cleaned". See my custom registry set Characteristics of "Cleaned" Coins - Custom Set (collectors-society.com).

[J P M]

I see many coins that are marked cleaned. I think a lot of them are just tray marks or rub not actually a cleaned coin. But TPG's do not want to take a chance on many of these coins.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/24/2024 at 7:16 AM, J P M said:

I see many coins that are marked cleaned. I think a lot of them are just tray marks or rub not actually a cleaned coin. But TPG's do not want to take a chance on many of these coins.

See, I think that gets into the whole Market vs. Technical grading and the entire MS vs. AU thing.

If you have the SLIGHTEST rub on a single high point...or a coin was slid in-and-out of a velvet pouch over the decades by the original owner....do we really want to say that the coin was circulated and/or was cleaned and/or has wear ?

[powermad5000]

On 7/24/2024 at 10:30 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

See, I think that gets into the whole Market vs. Technical grading and the entire MS vs. AU thing.

If you have the SLIGHTEST rub on a single high point...or a coin was slid in-and-out of a velvet pouch over the decades by the original owner....do we really want to say that the coin was circulated and/or was cleaned and/or has wear ?

You are getting too wrapped up in this. The slightest rub in one spot is NOT going to get a details grade for cleaning nor will it knock the coin down to AU. If an original owner slid a coin in and out of a pouch hundreds of times over many years, and the coin exhibits wear from this said activity, is it not wear from being slid in and out? Wear is wear.

Edited July 24 by powermad5000

[rrantique]

On 7/17/2024 at 9:29 AM, Daddysgirl777! said:

This looks from the photos to be an Almost Uncirculated coin . The cellophane holder gives  the appearance  of being polished.,which i do not think it is. see price guide below.

 

Type 1, No Motto, MS Price Changes PCGS # DESCRIPTION DESIG 30 40 55 60 62 63 64 65 66 67
PCGS #	DESCRIPTION	DESIG	30	40	55	60	62	63	64	65	66	67
8900	Type	MS +	2,575	2,650	3,500 3,650	5,250	7,500 8,500	9,250 10,500	12,000 13,250	16,000 20,000	35,000 75,000	185,000 400,000
8902	Shop with Affiliates 1850	MS +	3,750	4,250	8,750 10,000	22,500	45,000 75,000	110,000 135,000	240,000 270,000	335,000
8903	Shop with Affiliates 1850-O	MS +	7,750	10,250	28,500 36,000	100,000
8904	Shop with Affiliates 1851	MS +	2,575	2,650	4,500 4,750	9,000	20,000 25,000	40,000 50,000	65,000 110,000	315,000 475,000
8905	Shop with Affiliates 1851-O	MS +	4,500	6,000	11,500 14,500	42,500	85,000 100,000	175,000
8906	Shop with Affiliates 1852	MS +	2,575	2,650	3,500 3,850	6,750	14,000 16,750	32,500 62,500	105,000 165,000	350,000
8907	Shop with Affiliates 1852-O	MS +	4,500	6,000	12,250 14,000	40,000	90,000 120,000	250,000
8908	Shop with Affiliates 1853	MS +	2,575	2,650	4,000 4,500	7,000	▲19,000 37,500	45,000 60,000	100,000 150,000	250,000
8909	Shop with Affiliates 1853/'2'	MS +	3,500	4,000	7,750 9,000	16,500	▲75,000 ▲115,000
8910	Shop with Affiliates 1853-O	MS +	7,000	8,500	25,000 32,500	65,000	135,000 165,000	225,000
8911	Shop with Affiliates 1854 Small Date	MS +	2,575	2,650	3,500 3,650

[powermad5000]

On 7/25/2024 at 11:28 AM, rrantique said:

This looks from the photos to be an Almost Uncirculated coin . The cellophane holder gives  the appearance  of being polished.,which i do not think it is. see price guide below.

This price guide projected value is why I said this coin needs to be TPG graded. Slight difference in grade can be thousands of dollars of difference in this case.