Small $1 coins 1 1

[LincolnFan]

I recently sorted through over 800 "small" $1 coins.  I found a Susan B. Anthony 1979-P dollar with a "gold" color and a Sacagawea 2003-D dollar with a "silver" color.  Both coins are in excellent condition.  Are these striking color variations a result of errors at the mints, or the result of previous owners doctoring the color of the coins?  If the latter, is this a very common practice?  Thank you.  

[GoldFinger1969]

Before Sandon chimes in here -- maybe I can give him a break  -- I would suggest you buy the Official Guide Book of U.S. Coins (The Red Book) and read about them there and learn the basics. 

You can get more details from one of Sandon's many posts to newcomers to our Forum from Sandon himself....just scan some of the threads in the Newbie section.

Finally, use the Search function here to scan for specific threads on the coins in question for more details and back-and-forth commentary.  But do the basics first.

Edited July 12 by GoldFinger1969

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum, as a lifelong Lincoln cent collector I like the name you chose.   We would need to see photos of the two coins to be able to give you any answers, but the most logical answer would be the coins were plated many novelty coins are.

Edited July 12 by Coinbuf

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!
 

By the posting guidelines pinned at the top of this forum, you will need to provide clear, cropped photos of both sides of each coin.

[LincolnFan]

I will attach photos of the 2 coins.  Here is the Susan B. Anthony coin.  

[LincolnFan]

Here is the Sacagawea coin;  sorry about the glare on the obverse pic.  

[VKurtB]

On 7/11/2024 at 9:45 PM, LincolnFan said:

I recently sorted through over 800 "small" $1 coins.  I found a Susan B. Anthony 1979-P dollar with a "gold" color and a Sacagawea 2003-D dollar with a "silver" color.  Both coins are in excellent condition.  Are these striking color variations a result of errors at the mints, or the result of previous owners doctoring the color of the coins?  If the latter, is this a very common practice?  Thank you.  

It IS the latter, and yes it is disturbingly common. 

[Sandon]

   Both of these coins were plated or otherwise colored after they left the mint. You can see the normal color on the rim and high points of the 1979-P SBA dollar where the gold-colored substance has rubbed off. The 2003-D Sacagawea dollar (not issued for circulation and sold by the mint in roll and bag quantities and in mint sets) has an unnatural chrome-like shine, not the frosty mint luster that forms on a coin's surface when struck. Pieces like these were sold as novelties through magazine advertisements.

   The mint didn't start using gold colored small dollar coin planchets until 2000 and didn't use copper nickel clad ones after 1999. How could a dollar coin have been accidentally struck on a correctly sized planchet in these respective compositions in the years in question?

[powermad5000]

Thank you. I see traces of the original clad color on the Susan B Anthony, and I also see traces of the yellow color in spots on the obverse and reverse of the Sacagawea dollar. Originally, then, these coins left the Mint as normal coins and whatever happened to their color happened after departing the Mint. Coins struck on different metals or ones with say a missing clad layer will show the color of the planchet underneath or the respective metal across the entire surface including all fields, devices, and details. The off balance of the coloration of these coins could suggest altered color or just experimental damage to them.

On 7/12/2024 at 12:40 PM, Sandon said:

 The mint didn't start using gold colored small dollar coin planchets until 2000 and didn't use copper nickel clad ones after 1999. How could a dollar coin have been accidentally struck on a correctly sized planchet in these respective compositions in the years in question?

Not to give any hope to the OP or additional thought of "these might be" but we do know when there is a transition between two years or two metals at the Mint and changes taking place at the time (the infamous 1982 D Lincoln, also the 1943 Bronze and 1944 Steel Wheat cents, there could be a remote possibility of leftover planchets from 1999 present when the 2000's began to be struck, but I do not see there being any 2000 planchets being struck on 1999 dies unless the 2000 planchets arrived at the Mint during 1999 while the dies for 1999 were still in use. There have been some strange situations, however, as in the one in the link I am providing here currently found on Sullivan Numismatics that in my personal opinion fall under the category of Mint tomfoolery.

https://sullivannumismatics.com/pcgs-1-1979-1999-sba-dollar-struck-60-o-c-on-cent-planchet-ms64-rb/

Edited July 12 by powermad5000

[LincolnFan]

Thank you for this informative feedback and for imagining how the “impossible” might be “possible”.  

[Henri Charriere]

🐓 : What's wrong, Q?

Q.A.  I am beginning to lose my patience with both sides here. You do not need photos, cropped or not. You do not need photos of the reverse.  YOU DO NOT NEED PHOTOS, PERIOD.

In the beginning, as anyone without a failing memory well knows, there was already enough buzz to suggest the Mint made a Monumemtal Mistake.  Those "Sacs" were virtually impossible to distinguish from quarters. The first to reject them were the people who dealt with them on a daily basis: newsstands, grocery stores, etc.  Then the banks stepped in. They said:  WE DON'T WANT THEM!!!  The CoinStar's and coin laundries went nuts. Then MTA SUBWAYS took up the slack and used them in their vending machines -- but nobody wanted them, least of all because they were greasy with manganese alloy -- and the Mint continues to ADAMANTLY REFUSE to release to me to date, the full name, legal street address and phone number of the person, or persons, responsible for suugesting the date be incorporated with the edge lettering. The Suzy B's, introduced after the unwieldy Ikes, failed to resolve the problem.

The introduction of a distinctive gold color and dodecadonal shape failed to sway public opinion and all three are rarely encountered in circulation. Today, they all sit, unneeded and unloved, gathering dust, along with the $2 bills, in bank vaults everywhere.  Every valiant attempt to get the public to switch from paper dollars to metal coins failed, and failed miserably. THAT is the story. Not whether someone used lemon- or cherry-flavored Kool-Aid to make unwanted coins more interesting or desisirable or whether such covert applications used to titillate clueless Chat Board members on coin forums, constitute error or violation of law.

This will be my last contribution to this Forum.

Edited July 13 by Henri Charriere
Extensive die polishing for accuracy.

[RWB]

Quintus should thank the vending machine industry for ruining the potential for smaller, lighter dollar coins. It was their demand that small dollars fit in the acceptance slots of most vending machines. That slot, the metallic plate prior to the rejection mechanism had a slot a little larger than a quarter. The Anthony dollar was designed so it would fit through that commonly used slot. With the new dollar being only slightly larger than a quarter, and the vending companies further insisting on an alloy that could pass their mechanism and eddy current tests. The small dollar was doomed before any were struck. Treasury also rejected surface coloring, and alternative materials such as anodized titanium (pressed and sintered powder).

Rather than not posting again, Quintus might benefit from reading modern research books, such as mine. (Inco and Goud private experimental pieces in this instance.) These will prepare him for the rest of the 21st century. 

Edited July 12 by RWB
Spelling

[Just Bob]

On 7/12/2024 at 2:57 PM, Henri Charriere said:

🐓

This will be my last contribution to this Forum.

Saved for posterity.

[powermad5000]

On 7/12/2024 at 2:57 PM, Henri Charriere said:

This will be my last contribution to this Forum.

I somehow cannot believe that this particular thread is all it took. I am calling BS. 

If you are a true Virgo, you will be back very soon. 

Ricky's feathers might be ruffled but he has not flown the coop. 

[Coinbuf]

On 7/12/2024 at 3:11 PM, Just Bob said:

Saved for posterity.

Why, he has promised this many times but in true fashion has never followed through with his promise, this will not be any different.   Just another of his usual bids for attention.

Edited July 13 by Coinbuf

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/13/2024 at 12:39 AM, Coinbuf said:

Why, he has promised this many times but in true fashion has never followed through with his promise, this will not be any different.   Just another of his usual bids for attention.

One of these days, you won't have Quintus or Henry to kick around.

Off to the tarmac.....

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/13/2024 at 1:04 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

One of these days, you won't have Quintus or Henry to kick around.

Off to the tarmac.....

My apologies to the OP.  He posed a simple question... and found himself in the middle off a minefield. Certainly not my intent.

On the other hand, I feel worse for @Coinbuf .  He's had to disengage Ignore, leave his droppings, re-engage his Ignore, and beat a hasty retreat. All for an old man.

Edited July 16 by Henri Charriere
Correct misspelling.

[R__Rash]

On 7/11/2024 at 8:45 PM, LincolnFan said:

I recently sorted through over 800 "small" $1 coins.  I found a Susan B. Anthony 1979-P dollar with a "gold" color and a Sacagawea 2003-D dollar with a "silver" color.  Both coins are in excellent condition.  Are these striking color variations a result of errors at the mints, or the result of previous owners doctoring the color of the coins?  If the latter, is this a very common practice?  Thank you.  

In curiosity to the OP, other than by MM, Date and condition, maybe you could share other search criteria you might have been focused on. 800 1$ coins is quite a pile of coins. With the variety of post that come through this site daily I am surprised you could not post pics of the world famous Cheerios dollar, given away in a box of cereal to get people to “appreciate” them.

Edited July 13 by R__Rash

[Coinbuf]

On 7/12/2024 at 10:04 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

One of these days, you won't have Quintus or Henry to kick around.

Off to the tarmac.....

Now that would be lovely, if you want to enable a chronic liar or a narcissistic need for attention that is your choice, but I don't work that way.   I was raised to value and honor my word, if I say I'll do something that is just what I will do.   QA has bid goodby what three or four times that I have seen, given that I have him on ignore I can only imagine how many other times he has cried wolf that I thankfully was spared seeing.

[Halbrook Family]

800 coins and you could not find any clean coins? Not cleaned but ones in excellent shape? 

[VKurtB]

On 7/12/2024 at 3:12 PM, RWB said:

Quintus should thank the vending machine industry for ruining the potential for smaller, lighter dollar coins. It was their demand that small dollars fit in the acceptance slots of most vending machines. That slot, the metallic plate prior to the rejection mechanism had a slot a little larger than a quarter. The Anthony dollar was designed so it would fit through that commonly used slot. With the new dollar being only slightly larger than a quarter, and the vending companies further insisting on an alloy that could pass their mechanism and eddy current tests. The small dollar was doomed before any were struck. Treasury also rejected surface coloring, and alternative materials such as anodized titanium (pressed and sintered powder).

Rather than not posting again, Quintus might benefit from reading modern research books, such as mine. (Inco and Goud private experimental pieces in this instance.) These will prepare him for the rest of the 21st century. 

Be more specific, @RWB. Who precisely in the vending machine industry did this? Do you know? I do, with 100 percent certainty. I’ll allow you the floor…. (Hint: it’s one northeastern state firm.)

Edited July 15 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/13/2024 at 2:47 PM, Coinbuf said:

... if you want to enable a chronic liar or a narcissistic need for attention that is your choice, but I don't work that way.   I was raised to value and honor my word, if I say I'll do something that is just what I will do.   QA has bid goodby what three or four times that I have seen, given that I have him on ignore I can only imagine how many other times he has cried wolf that I thankfully was spared seeing.

🐓:  I have been asked to deliver the following "Message To Garcia" on behalf of my former Principal Keeper, Q.A.

1.  @Coinbuf  is given to making grandiose statements unsubstantiated by a scintilla of evidence. Chronic lying? Can he cite a single example? Sadly, no.

2. The term narcissist is meaningless; it has lost its original meaning.

3. I have never failed to honor my word.

4. @Coinbuf  is evidently unfamiliar with "departure" procedure.  Any member involuntarily  disfellowshipped is never given an opportunity to bid the congregation adieu. Any assertion to the contrary -- I had bid goodbye "two or three times THAT I HAVE SEEN" (Emphasis mine) is a baldfaced, dastardly lie.

5.  Finally, anyone who engages the IGNORE button (which leaves the text of any message clearly legible) is, IMHO, exhibiting a character defect.  The preponderance of the evidence the member gleefully proffers as "proof," falls woefully short of any standard of evidence.  The member has hoisted his own petard; he is not in my league. My rank speaks for itself: I am Number 1 The Gold Standard.

On 7/12/2024 at 6:11 PM, Just Bob said:

Saved for posterity.

FWIW:  You were given an opportunity to respect, if not the man, than the Office of the President of the United States. You chose not to. That is your legacy.

To the OP:  My sincerest apologies for intruding on your Topic and thread.

(Posted at the discretion of Moderation.)

[Just Bob]

On 7/15/2024 at 7:16 PM, Henri Charriere said:

 

MFWIW:  You were given an opportunity to respect, if not the man, than the Office of the President of the United States. You chose not to. That is your legacy.

 

You still mad because I did not back you up when you posted your rant about the piece of political exonumia that was posted in my thread? Once again, I assert that, had the subject been a member of the opposite party, you would never have raised any objection. Don’t blame me for being tolerant, when you are the one with the obvious bias.

What I chose to do was allow a piece of exonumia to be posted which followed a long tradition of political satire and commentary. If it offended you, you had the right to comment accordingly. What you did not have a right to do was insist that I demand it be removed from the thread. 
 

As far as my legacy is concerned, I feel pretty certain that after I am dead and gone, I will be remembered by members of this forum not for that one incident, but for the more positive contributions that I have made.
 

What do you suppose they will remember about you?

[powermad5000]

Gentlemen! GENTLEMEN!!!!!! Order!!!! ORDER!!!!!!!

This is commentary for an exchange via PM, member to member. We all have our gripes and I have my own about being told I am not able to comment in a thread by an OP which I found to be in really poor taste on a public forum, but that is for me and that member and that's where it will stay. If anything, this has gone so off topic, it wouldn't surprise me if the OP never returns to the forum.

Apologies to the OP for this particular post having devolved. I hope prior in this that you were able to get satisfactory information.

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/16/2024 at 12:15 AM, Just Bob said:

....What do you suppose they will remember about you?

1.  I do not vote for any party; I vote for the man.  Exonumia is a cop-out.  The hand-made piece of cheap cardboard contained a racial slur.  I have little tolerance for intolerance. I was brought up to respect all people, easy when you're brought up in New York where folks at each others' throats elsewhere in the world live here in piece and harmony.

2.  I don't dwell on legacy. That is a matter for others to decide.  No dead man, to my knowledge, has ever complained about his legacy.  

[Just Bob]

On 7/16/2024 at 8:57 AM, Henri Charriere said:

 The hand-made piece of cheap cardboard contained a racial slur.  

If that is true, I completely missed it. Please point it out. Political satire is one thing, but racism is not something to be condoned.

[VKurtB]

On 7/15/2024 at 2:50 PM, VKurtB said:

Be more specific, @RWB. Who precisely in the vending machine industry did this? Do you know? I do, with 100 percent certainty. I’ll allow you the floor…. (Hint: it’s one northeastern state firm.)

Still crickets? Wassamatta Roger? It’s not in a dusty archive so you don’t know it? There are OTHER means of research you know. Such as hearing first hand from the principal participants. My method of research. Interview the principal participants. 

[RWB]

On 7/16/2024 at 11:59 AM, VKurtB said:

Still crickets? Wassamatta Roger? It’s not in a dusty archive so you don’t know it? There are OTHER means of research you know. Such as hearing first hand from the principal participants. My method of research. Interview the principal participants. 

Look in the book, or do you own research. I will not help someone like you.

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/16/2024 at 11:23 AM, Just Bob said:

If that is true, I completely missed it. Please point it out. Political satire is one thing, but racism is not something to be condoned.

🐓 : This being the Newbie Forum, and being familiar with the particulars under discussion, I shall take the liberty of responding for Q.A., my former Principal keeper.

Your retort comes too little too late and most grievous of all, lacks any modicum or semblance of sincerity and good faith.

If someone responded the way I did, I would at the very least, inquire why.  You stood by and said nothing allowing the atrocity committed to remain posted unmolested. The fact no one else spoke up and challenged it spoke volumes about their own disgraceful mind-set and inclinations. If this were a mere misunderstanding as to the appropriateness of posting an article, the OP himself would have apologized, tentatively, and asked what the problem was. He was rude, condescending and made no effort to determine what the problem was knowing full well the weight of opinion of all, was on this side.  Accordingly, I am not going to dignify your faux ingenuous reply with a comment.  You were given an unprecedented opportunity to let the Forum and its membership know where you stand. By standing mute, for months now -- under the umbrella of simply not knowing -- you, the OP and threadmaster, failed miserably.

Walter Breen, too, is known for two things depending on whom you ask.  Your premeditated ignorance rings as hollow as one of your wood nickels. 🐓 

(Moderation may post, delete, or move this contribution to another Topic, as it sees fit.)

Edited July 16 by Henri Charriere
Switch a letter to to a letter f, in dignify.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 7/13/2024 at 1:04 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

One of these days, you won't have Quintus or Henry to kick around.

Off to the tarmac.....

What a glorious day that will be.