Indian Head No more 1 1

[nubond@msn.com]

You've all made your point.

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[nubond@msn.com]

Well - we had no idea there was a “most basic” catalog.  

You’re right this is quite a group. I did post in the new two collecting thread, but I didn’t realize showing a fake was such a embarrassing thing to do.  Let’s be honest if someone tells you they are brand new in a hobby field and they send you an iPhone shot of a US coin among a few hundred inherited-because it was very tiny and interesting looking-I was burned over and over well the NGC moderator allowed it.  My warning is to others to watch out. We all should watch what we say to others-And if it’s critical, it’s highly likely There will be an equal response to be prepared for.

I appreciate the reference to the catalog and we will certainly purchase one.

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[ldhair]

It's clear you are not able to read what others have posted. You can't learn anything here. You ignore everyone that has tried to help you. I hope you find a site that will put up with you. You come off like a 14 year old kid.

[J P M]

As I said before there are many who will help but you are not listening to the suggestions. You have formed an opinion on the members that is uncalled for. NGC is not responsible for anyone or any of the replies you have received. The members here give their time and experience free of charge, and you bark at them. If you talk to coin store owners in this manor I will be surprised if you get anyone to help. Please post both sides of a coin if you would like honest answers one sided coins are useless.

[RWB]

Your 1912 coin appears to be in a grading company holder. Gold coins of this design are frequently counterfeited, so getting them authenticated by NGC or another company is good assurance for you.

The 1921 Peace dollar is evenly worn and and a nice collector piece worth about $250. If you're going to keep it, then skip independent grading and put it in a Mylar 2x2 flip or plastic coin holder.

Yes, the Guide Book of United States Coins is the basic information source. You are "flying blind" without one. Among many other things, it includes brief descriptions of coin grades for each denomination and design -- so that can get you started. It will also help you avoid the problem encountered in your first post.

[nubond@msn.com]

Thanks for the information. It would’ve helped early on when I was trying to learn a bit more about grading as a collector, not a seller.  My husband has gone ahead and reached out to other sources and we will be just fine. 

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[nubond@msn.com]

On 7/10/2024 at 1:24 PM, ldhair said:

It's clear you are not able to read what others have posted. You can't learn anything here. You ignore everyone that has tried to help you. I hope you find a site that will put up with you. You come off like a 14 year old kid.

I have read every bit of it. If you knew me at all, you would find calling me a “non-reader” is quite off about me. I’m not sure what to make of being called a 14-year-old kid.

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[nubond@msn.com]

On 7/10/2024 at 1:55 PM, J P M said:

As I said before there are many who will help but you are not listening to the suggestions. You have formed an opinion on the members that is uncalled for. NGC is not responsible for anyone or any of the replies you have received. The members here give their time and experience free of charge, and you bark at them. If you talk to coin store owners in this manor I will be surprised if you get anyone to help. Please post both sides of a coin if you would like honest answers one sided coins are useless.

Sorry about that-we are not looking for an evaluation of our coins anymore-we just wanted the person who said we have a pile of “play money” to be aware it might not all be all that. My husband has already had his gold ones evaluated. It is a shame about NGC, but it’s the Forum host and Moderator. After a lifetime of work, we humans are allowed to take part in the things we enjoy.  And we certainly form our opinions through our experiences.  Its my prerogative to avoid whats negative and head to a better hobby experience, especially if I’m paying for it.  I’m sure you understand.  I wish you and NGC both well.

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[ldhair]

On 7/10/2024 at 7:32 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

It is a shame about NGC, but it’s the Forum host and Moderator.

There is no shame about NGC. They are your friend if you decide to have coins graded. They are our host and allow collectors to talk coins. The mod's do a great job but there was never a reason for them to get in the middle of this mess. No rules have been broken. Many of the folks here tried to help. That's what this site is all about. 

If you have future questions, I'm sure you will get honest answers. Again, that's what this site is all about.  

[powermad5000]

Sorry to chime in again, but your 1921 Peace Dollar is also counterfeit. The shape and positioning of the 1's in the date numerals is off as well as the overall shape of the 9, amongst other things in the details that do not match a genuine example.

Edited July 11 by powermad5000

[VKurtB]

On 7/9/2024 at 8:28 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

we’re constantly being told to grade our coins

This is HORRIBLE advice as a blanket piece of advice. It’s unnecessarily expensive and time consuming. 

[nubond@msn.com]

Thats interesting….….Why do you see it that way?

[nubond@msn.com]

On 7/10/2024 at 10:43 PM, powermad5000 said:

Sorry to chime in again, but your 1921 Peace Dollar is also counterfeit. The shape and positioning of the 1's in the date numerals is off as well as the overall shape of the 9, amongst other things in the details that do not match a genuine example.

Its already been evaluated at a San Francisco coin shop. It’s not fake-neither are fake.  It’s a high relief 1921 peace dollar.  

I appreciate the comments on what to look for in a fake coin.  

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[VKurtB]

On 7/11/2024 at 11:12 AM, nubond@msn.com said:

Thats interesting….….Why do you see it that way?

Assuming this was aimed toward my comment. Admittedly, opinions vary on this, but suggesting that every, or even most, coins be sent in for professional grading is blatantly stupid. Now there ARE people who say, “if it’s not professionally graded, I would never buy it”. There is a word for people like that - m-o-r-o-n-s. 
 

I own about 100,000 coins right now. Maybe 400 are professionally graded. Most coins will NEVER benefit from professional grading. It is simply too expensive. You’ll add ridiculous costs that do nothing for a coin’s value. 

[VKurtB]

On 7/10/2024 at 11:57 AM, nubond@msn.com said:

Well - we had no idea there was a “most basic” catalog.  

You’re right this is quite a group. I did post in the new two collecting thread, but I didn’t realize showing a fake was such a embarrassing thing to do.  Let’s be honest if someone tells you they are brand new in a hobby field and they send you an iPhone shot of a US coin among a few hundred inherited-because it was very tiny and interesting looking-I was burned over and over well the NGC moderator allowed it.  My warning is to others to watch out. We all should watch what we say to others-And if it’s critical, it’s highly likely There will be an equal response to be prepared for.

I appreciate the reference to the catalog and we will certainly purchase one. Thank you for suggesting it. Had that been offered at the beginning it would’ve saved a lot of difficulty. 

I’m going to call to see if I can get this account shut down completely so I can stop getting these notices on my phone-this stuff is not for me.  Best of luck to your group.

 

 

 

 

Does the bottom of the bust impinge onto the “9”?

[nubond@msn.com]

On 7/9/2024 at 1:28 PM, powermad5000 said:

I am quite confused. Did someone offer to buy this fake Indian Head cent?

Also, to the OP, unless you plan to post 500+ coins one at a time with obverse and reverse pics and ask about each one, I am not sure what you are looking for us to do for you here. Or if you could get this help anywhere else you are looking for it at that. Basically you are asking for someone to individually assess and grade each and every coin you are now in possession of to see what are valuable or worth submitting to a TPG to get graded. That would take many hours of involvement for even the most experienced of us to check each coin for key dates, varieties, and possible errors. For example, you mentioned having bags of Morgan Dollars. As a lifetime collector of this series, I am not sure to how to advise you based on "I have bags of 30-40 Morgan dollars". I don't have a physical list of Morgan dollar key dates (I have a partial one in my head which says "around" 1893, some S, and CC's), or of any of the 463 VAM varieties currently recognized some of which are quite rare.

I would like to help but with this amount of coins to be individually looked at, I am not sure what to tell you other than you need to find someone local to physically and individually assess each coin you have one at a time, and you have to hope they are knowledgeable enough to not miss something that is a key or rare variety.

As for counterfeit coins, counterfeiting goes all the way back to when coins were first minted (possibly before Christ was born). There are fakes of ancient coins. As for US coins, there were many fakes of early silver dollars and Trade dollars. Just because a collection is old does not mean it is immune from having possible counterfeits.

Once again, I would and I am sure many members here would like to help as we do with most people who come here, but what I believe you are looking for cannot be achieved over the internet. Just my opinion. I wish you good luck in finding what you need.

We do have many, many Morgans-My husband likes that series too. Here’s one example—His grandmother preserved it in a flannel bag—-Were aware condition matters/but well keep it-Just not sure if we should put it in a group to take to a grader.

[Sandon]

    I'm glad that your husband sought professional help to evaluate your coins, which was one of the two suggestions I made when I initially responded to this topic. I hope that the dealer he chose is giving him good advice and not just submitting any coin he has brought in to a grading service, which for many coins could cost more than they are worth. I hope that you now understand that my and the others' replies were intended to educate, not offend. (Posts by "Henri Charriere" are satirical and apparently intended to amuse, although they sometimes don't have that result.)

    I assume that by "take to a grader" you mean submit the coin to a reputable third-party grading service, which would be limited to NGC, PCGS or CAC Grading ("top tier" services) or ANACS or ICG ("second tier", meaning less respected but still legitimate) services. (If not, please explain what you mean.)  As you've made it clear that you don't want to sell the coins and I assume that you don't want to put them on an online coin registry, with which you might not even be familiar, I don't know why you would want to have them third-party graded. If you just wanted to identify and determine approximate values for your coins, you could have just obtained the books, including the "Red Book" a grading guide, a current price reference and other print and online resources (some free) referred to in the "Resources for New Collectors" topics to which I provided a link.

   The 1901-O Morgan dollar shown in your most recent post is a common date, even in lower uncirculated grades. (A 1901 or 1901-S would be worth considerably more.)  The angle, lighting and lack of cropping to eliminate the surrounding surface make it difficult to evaluate the coin, but it would likely grade between MS 61 and MS 63, in which it has a current retail (dealer selling) list price of between $75 and $110, with wholesale (dealer buying) prices being considerably less. The NGC "Economy" tier grading fee for coins valued below $300 would be $23 for this one coin and doesn't include its share of processing and shipping costs and whatever the dealer charges you for his assistance.  Fees at other top tier services are comparable. So far, the only coin you have shown for which I would have recommended grading service submission is the 1912 gold piece ($2.50 or $5 denomination, which can't be told from the obverse) and that would be more to verify its authenticity, as coins of this type are frequently counterfeited, rather than obtain a grading opinion.

   If you would like our opinions on any more of your coins, please start a new topic with an appropriate title about each coin, as anyone seeing this topic on the forum index will assume it's just about an 1877 Indian cent. Please try to post clear, cropped, head on images of each side, like of this 1896 Morgan dollar (PCGS graded MS 63):

    

[nubond@msn.com]

….every time we try to take it into a shop that says they grade, they just want to purchase certain coins but will not grade for us. How do we get our fave coins graded so we can document our collection?  I attached one, but he has a few hundred coins”. 

——That was the very first question I posed in this thread. This has been an painful and frustrating endeavor.  we will go by the book.——

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[powermad5000]

On 7/11/2024 at 5:49 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

This is no place for women to interact

Good luck and peace!

[J P M]

On 7/11/2024 at 6:49 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

….every time we try to take it into a shop that says they grade, they just want to purchase certain coins but will not grade for us. How do we get our fave coins graded so we can document our collection?  I attached one, but he has a few hundred coins”. 

——That was the very first question I posed in this thread. This has been an painful and frustrating endeavor.  we will go by the book.——

I only know a couple of dealers that would send out coins for me and I have been doing business with them for years. Most shops are not going to want to be responsible for your coins if there is no profit to be made. You are fresh off the street and have no knowledge of the coins you are in possession of, so they want to buy your coins. Have you been given some prices from the gray sheet for any of your coins?

[Sandon]

   "Grading" is a description or opinion of the condition of a coin, by adjectives, numbers or both. It is an important factor in evaluating a coin but not the only one. The "grade" (condition) of a coin is irrelevant unless one also knows at a minimum its country of issue, type, date, and mint, whether it is genuine, counterfeit or altered, and sometimes its die variety and other particular characteristics. Unfortunately, some collectors now also use the term "grading" as meaning the submission of coins to third-party grading services.

   When you said in your initial post that you wanted to find a shop to "grade" your coins, I assumed that you either wanted them to submit them to a third-party grading service or to have a coin dealer or other expert do a full assessment of them, in other words, appraise them. No one literally just "grades" coins without otherwise identifying and evaluating them, and dealers are largely in the business of buying and selling coins, not just "grading" them. Just literally "grading" your coins would not have "documented" them for you. I'm sorry if we were unable to make this clear to you and hope that you now have a better understanding of the terminology.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/9/2024 at 4:50 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

I am trying to show sincere need.  my original post is to find out how to get coins like that one (we have hundreds more of different types of coins. We are just now looking at for the first time) but generally, we have been advised about selling it, which is not our goal. Our goal is how to identify the coins to submit—-I appreciate the red book reference and will use it of course.  It’s fine, but I’m not renewing this account because I don’t think this is the right place for us to learn.  I’ve got coins already submitted with the other advisory organizations.  I’m picking peaceful information so between that and the red book that one of you provided here that will help. I’m sure with our very large collection.  We hope to get the good ones pulled out and who knows maybe someday we will show them.  Thanks again.

Nubond, if the coins are mostly common coins -- circulated and/or worn and/or cleaned -- then they may only be worth face value or their precious metal (gold or silver content) value.  It would NOT be worth a dealer's time to go through hundreds of these coins individually unless you wanted to pay him a fixed fee.

The best thing to do is this:  identify THE MOST VALUABLE coins in the group.  Let's say the Top 20% (maybe 100 coins) or even Top 10% or 5%...whatever.  

Find those coins.....get their approximate value for the approximate condition they are in based on the Red Book/Official Guide To US Coins.  Specific grading doesn't matter at this point, you just want ballpark estimates....maybe a coin is Mint State or About Uncirculated or Extra Fine or Very Good.  Look at the price grid and write down the range of values.

Then you'll find out if any of the coins or a number of them have VALUABLE NUMISMATIC WORTH.  A $1 Morgan Silver Dollar is worth $1 face value....about $22 on silver value...but if it's a semi-rare coin and in very good condition (and not cleaned or marred) it could be worth $50-$250, or more.

Edited July 12 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

Nubond, there was also alot of confusion as Sandon stated about what you were trying to do.  Everyone here is willing to assist newcomers, but doing an entire collection's appraisal or offering grades via photos on dozens of coins is impractical.  That said, if you find a few clearly valuable (gold ?) coins, maybe a thread on those would be appropriate.

You said you had some Morgan's.  Maybe a thread featuring the top ones there and asking our opinions would also be beneficial.

Again, though...if they are COMMON coins that are not in PRISTINE MINT STATE condition they may only be worth $30 give-or-take (the silver content value).

That 1912 $10 Indian Head Eagle looks interesting...as Roger noted, it already appears to be in a TPG holder, is it ?  Regardless, obverse (front) and reverse (back) photos could tell us if it is legit and the approximate condition.  As it is, it should be worth at least $1,200 or so even if that is a common issue and in a lower condition so that it's valued at melt (I'm not familiar with $10 Eagles so I'll defer to experts here).

Edited July 12 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

OP,

Step one: your use of terminology of the field is off. You are confusing us, and I have 61 years of experience. Your idea of what a “grader” is seems to be off. Slow down. As Cat Stevens once wrote, “Take your time, think a lot, think of everything you’ve got. You will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.”

Breathe. These are durable assets. Acting in haste is a really bad idea. Read more. We’ll be here when you’ve done so. 

[VKurtB]

On 7/11/2024 at 4:12 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

We do have many, many Morgans-My husband likes that series too. Here’s one example—His grandmother preserved it in a flannel bag—-Were aware condition matters/but well keep it-Just not sure if we should put it in a group to take to a grader.

These photos do not show for me. Flannel bag? Tiny ones, or what? Or is it canvas? By the way, I “take coins to a grader”, but most people do not. There are only a small handful of graders, and NGC is among the best. Local or even national dealers are NOT graders. People SEND coins to grading firms usually, or if they DO take them to an authorized dealer, he, in turn sends them to the grading firm. Graders are not all over the place.