Indian Head No more 1 1

[nubond@msn.com]

My husband has been a collector since he was a child around 1969, along with his grandmother from Baltimore.  We are retired and trying to spend time on the collection, but find so little help or advice.  We retired from the East Coast to the West Coast, and every time we try to take it into a shop that says they grade, they just want to purchase certain coins but will not grade for use.  How do we get our fave coins graded so we can document our collection?  I attached one, but he has a few hundred coins. 

 

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[Coinbuf]

I'm sorry to say that the coin in your photo is not a real coin, perhaps a token or outright counterfeit but not a real 1877 Indian Head Cent.  

[Sandon]

   The "1877 Indian cent" is an obvious and crude replica or fake that looks nothing like a genuine one. It has no value.

    I recommend that you do one of two things:

    1.  Take the coins to a dealer who is willing to appraise the collection, which will likely involve payment of an hourly or flat appraisal fee. Appraising coins involves not only grading but other knowledge as well. If possible, find a dealer in your area who is a member of the Professional Numismatists Guild (directory at https://www.pngdealers.org/af_memberDirectory_Custom.asp) or at least the American Numismatic Association (directory at https://www.coin-dealer-directory.money.org/). NGC also has a dealer directory at Find Coin Shops & Dealers | Coin Dealer Locator | NGC (ngccoin.com). To avoid a conflict of interest, the coins should not be offered to the appraising dealer for purchase.

  2. Obtain basic numismatic references, especially a current (2025) or recent edition of A Guide Book of United States Coins (the "Red Book"), so that you can get at least a rough idea of the value of the collection yourself and can evaluate the fairness of offers you receive. You can find information about where to obtain this and other essential print and online resources, including grading and price guides, on the following forum topic:

   Even if you choose the first option, you may wish to compare your "fave coins" with images of genuine pieces shown in the "Red Book" or on the NGC Coin Explorer or PCGS Coinfacts/Photograde, referred to in the linked topic so that you don't waste appraisal fees on obvious fakes such as the one shown.

[Henri Charriere]

Pardon my impertinence, but the date of your IHC caught my eye, and naturally curious, I was expecting to see one of the finest key dates of the series in Brilliant Uncirculated condition with perhaps a Newbie-type query:  "Is this worth anything?"

If I may (the waving hand by your User website Name obligates members who reply to be most accommodating) I should like to ask you a question...

Out of the "few hundred coins" you, your husband with well over fifty (50) years' experience in the field and a grandmother undoubtedly familiar with such coins she routinely received in change, why would you choose to post a crude caricature of a "coin" evidently made for a child's toy game which I seriously doubt Stevie Wonder would accept in change.

None of you are young. You have the entire internet at your disposal. You have wasted our collective time and yours.  If this is representative of the scores of coins you and yours have collected over a lifetime, I have already "appraised" your collection and waived my fee.

***

🐓  :  Now we have a bigger problem!

Q.A.:  WHAT?

🐓  :  How do we prevent Kurt from seeing this?   

(Posted at the discretion of Moderation.)

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!

This 1877 IHC is a very poor fake and looks nothing like an original. The 1877 is a key date and a common target for counterfeiters. Being that is one of hundreds of your coins, I would expect much better for the rest of the collection.

Most dealers are not going to individually grade your coins unless they are key dates (and not like this IHC). Many of them don't have that kind of time and would rather just throw a blanket price at you for the whole lot. That's just how they do things.

I would avail myself of the resources mentioned by member Sandon and get familiar with what you have, and also try not to rush through the entire collection but give each coin a good amount of time when inspecting them.

[nubond@msn.com]

Thank you for the reply. It’s confusing to think that a coin that was sitting in a box for 50+ years is a fake-but ok.  We don’t intend to transact coins - we merely inherited over 500 of them and we are going through them now as retirees— my husband and his grandmother together when he was a child and we are over 60.  my only interest is to pull out handful of these. We want to get them graded, but we intend to keep them as collectors and not sell them which seems to be assumed in some replies.   

Maybe this is not the right place for us to be a member. We should look at some site where collectors are more involved.  We enjoy going through them and merely want to figure out which are the best ones as we work on our own collection and not on one to sell off.

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[nubond@msn.com]

we have bags of 30 or 40 Morgan dollars dating back to the 1800s piece dollars, a couple hundred Indian head, nickels, many in containers that a young girl from Baltimore placed them in thinking they were special when she was a child in the early 1900s. We have a couple hundred. of foreign coins because she was a traveler, especially to Britain.  

We have had very little luck getting any response from anyone other than to offer us bulk pricing to buy our collection, but we are getting are trying to just enjoy the collection and understand which ones are worthwhile and we’re seeking your help for that.  We thought it would be valuable.  I apologize that I invoke such a negative response from a couple of you.  It was certainly not my intention.  

[nubond@msn.com]

Are there more focused collectors sites that might be more appropriate for us as solely collectors to join to get advice?  We have gold coins we know are not fake.  We haven’t gone to that point yet-we’re just starting to research what we have.  We obviously do not want to embarrass ourselves, so want to be in the right place-And not waste anyone’s time. Ive been told I have done just that by displaying (and now removing) the subject coin. apologies.

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[l.cutler]

You are in the right place, there are some very knowledgeable and helpful members. Best bet is to just ignore the rare poster who offers nothing but criticism.  Welcome, and keep posting and learning.

[nubond@msn.com]

well, once again, we inherited the collection and it hasn’t been opened out of boxes for 20+ years, including this little coin.  So if someone counterfeited it, it must’ve happened sometime back in the 1980s at the latest.  

Yeah, I’m kind of rattled a bit at the responses hoping I would just get some feedback on how to select the coins that we should actually pay to get graded as collectors.  I’ve got a few more. I could post here, but I’m afraid now to show them because because of that response and I’m sure they will feel those are fake as well.  Once again, they came from a grandmother from Baltimore who used to pick up sets in DC all the time that were proofs and we have plenty of those as well.  We just sifting through ourselves and I think I’ll let go of this membership and stick with the other one.  We need some helpful advice.  NGC seems like it probably wasn’t the right choice for us to seek it.  But thank you for your comments.

[R__Rash]

On 7/9/2024 at 12:15 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

do any of you know collectors sites that might be more appropriate for us as collectors to join to get advice on our various coins?  We also have gold coins that we know are not fake.  We haven’t gone to that point yet.  But we are just beginning and do not want to embarrass ourselves, but it sounds like I have by saying I would display this coin.  Again, my apologies.

For future reference if you are asking as you say, for help and knowledge, legitimately, you should post pics of the Obverse and reverse….other than this being an obvious replica, counterfeit, there would be no way to help you fully if you are sincere, unless you post fully the coin in question. I for one see the post so far just as a dig to light up the straight man  in ancient Roman dress with his hand up the rear of a dummy rooster, that is screaming for the guy that types in all caps to come blow off some smoke …just saying…

 

Edited July 10 by R__Rash

[nubond@msn.com]

It’s fine. I just shut down my account. It’s probably not the right place for us.  I had no intention for anything other than to learn.  Like I said it’s just an inherited collection and we wanted some help to become more capable collectors.— not someone who is dying to liquidate the collection.  One post suggested we do just that in the other stated, we were too old to work on this and she given the collection to our son - boy that is a statement.  Anyway,  it’s a special collection for us no matter what the value may of the individual coins.  the grading aspect has been discussed in numerous posts in these forums repeatedly.  Clearly, it’s an unclear aspect of collecting.

Edited July 11 by nubond@msn.com

[Sandon]

   I'm mystified as to just what "advice" you were seeking.  The "Red Book" and other resources to which I referred you would have shown you at minimal cost how to identify, roughly grade and approximately value your coins, including mint issued proof and uncirculated coin sets, Morgan and Peace dollars, and gold coins.  They would also have taught you much fascinating information about U.S. coins. 

   Could you please explain what it is that you wanted more clearly?

   

[nubond@msn.com]

That’s about half of my dining room table that is covered—-and there are bags underneath not yet opened …. We were. just trying to learn here…..

[nubond@msn.com]

Did you send a link to the Redbook?  I would appreciate looking at it as we dig through.  But again, this site is clearly for people who have been in this field of collection for quite some time and not for people who are new entries—-it’s completely fine. we will look to going to a couple of shows to see if we can get feedback on our collection that we hope to keep and pass on to our son.  We hope to identify a few really good ones we can grade. Thank you for replying.

[R__Rash]

On 7/9/2024 at 2:15 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

Did you send a link to the Redbook?  I would appreciate looking at it as we dig through.  But again, this site is clearly for people who have been in this field of collection for quite some time and not for people who are new entries—-it’s completely fine. we will look to going to a couple of shows to see if we can get feedback on our collection that we hope to keep and pass on to our son.  We hope to identify a few really good ones we can grade. Thank you for replying.

What a better place to learn? Just expect and accept the facts and chuck the mire. Just post both sides, cropped, and focused. The dust settles quickly. They will help as much as you show sincere need.

Edited July 9 by R__Rash

[powermad5000]

I am quite confused. Did someone offer to buy this fake Indian Head cent?

Also, to the OP, unless you plan to post 500+ coins one at a time with obverse and reverse pics and ask about each one, I am not sure what you are looking for us to do for you here. Or if you could get this help anywhere else you are looking for it at that. Basically you are asking for someone to individually assess and grade each and every coin you are now in possession of to see what are valuable or worth submitting to a TPG to get graded. That would take many hours of involvement for even the most experienced of us to check each coin for key dates, varieties, and possible errors. For example, you mentioned having bags of Morgan Dollars. As a lifetime collector of this series, I am not sure to how to advise you based on "I have bags of 30-40 Morgan dollars". I don't have a physical list of Morgan dollar key dates (I have a partial one in my head which says "around" 1893, some S, and CC's), or of any of the 463 VAM varieties currently recognized some of which are quite rare.

I would like to help but with this amount of coins to be individually looked at, I am not sure what to tell you other than you need to find someone local to physically and individually assess each coin you have one at a time, and you have to hope they are knowledgeable enough to not miss something that is a key or rare variety.

As for counterfeit coins, counterfeiting goes all the way back to when coins were first minted (possibly before Christ was born). There are fakes of ancient coins. As for US coins, there were many fakes of early silver dollars and Trade dollars. Just because a collection is old does not mean it is immune from having possible counterfeits.

Once again, I would and I am sure many members here would like to help as we do with most people who come here, but what I believe you are looking for cannot be achieved over the internet. Just my opinion. I wish you good luck in finding what you need.

[Sandon]

 

On 7/9/2024 at 4:15 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

Did you send a link to the Redbook?

 I explained where you could get a copy in the "Resources for New Collectors" topic that I embedded in my post from yesterday. The newest edition of the "Red Book" (2025) is available from its publisher for all of $17.95 plus shipping (spiral bound) at https://whitman.com/books-by-series/red-book-blue-book/. Please also click my topic, which will explain where you can also get other print resources and online resources, most of which are free.

[nubond@msn.com]

On 7/9/2024 at 1:18 PM, R__Rash said:

What a better place to learn? Just expect and accept the facts and chuck the mire. Just post both sides, cropped, and focused. The dust settles quickly. They will help as much as you show sincere need.

I am trying to show sincere need.  my original post is to find out how to get coins like that one (we have hundreds more of different types of coins. We are just now looking at for the first time) but generally, we have been advised about selling it, which is not our goal. Our goal is how to identify the coins to submit—-I appreciate the red book reference and will use it of course.  It’s fine, but I’m not renewing this account because I don’t think this is the right place for us to learn.  I’ve got coins already submitted with the other advisory organizations.  I’m picking peaceful information so between that and the red book that one of you provided here that will help. I’m sure with our very large collection.  We hope to get the good ones pulled out and who knows maybe someday we will show them.  Thanks again.

 

 

 

 

[nubond@msn.com]

Great thank you for the link. That may be  a helpful resource.  We will figure out which coins to grade.  No worries.

 

[Sandon]

   I finally understand what your issue is. You aren't asking which of your coins are worth "grading"--any coin you want to collect is. You are asking which (if any) of your coins are worth submitting to a third-party grading service such as NGC.

   Third-party grading services are not appraisal services!  You need to have some idea of what your coins are and approximately what they are worth just to fill out the submission forms properly. Only individual coins worth at least several hundred dollars have sufficient value to justify the substantial cost of such submissions. Others can be enjoyed and protected in albums, government packaging and holders such as those in which some of your coins are already housed. In order to make this determination, it is imperative that you either learn how to at least approximately grade and otherwise evaluate the coins yourself or obtain professional assistance to do so.  This is consistent with the advice that I and others on this forum previously gave you.

    

[J P M]

Welcome Nubond, everyone is more than willing to help. You could not find a place anywhere in the world to get better advice on numismatics than on this forum. With all the coins on that table you could have posted you happened to pick a counterfeit coin. What are the odds of that happening. And yes, counterfeit coins have been around as long as coins have. Everyone has told you the best answers you can get. It is up to you to take that information and work with it. I wish you luck. 

[nubond@msn.com]

On 7/9/2024 at 5:57 PM, J P M said:

Welcome Nubond, everyone is more than willing to help. You could not find a place anywhere in the world to get better advice on numismatics than on this forum. With all the coins on that table you could have posted you happened to pick a counterfeit coin. What are the odds of that happening. And yes, counterfeit coins have been around as long as coins have. Everyone has told you the best answers you can get. It is up to you to take that information and work with it. I wish you luck. 

 

[nubond@msn.com]

Thank you—we have a sack with some coins in cases that we feel a good ones, but we feel we are out of our depth and making these evaluations and assumptions on different reference resources we have and we’re constantly being told to grade our coins.  Again, there’s no graders available at least not in northern California.-there’s a number for a greater and Oakland, but his number is disconnected.  

I have truly learned a lot on this thread and this site.  We will figure it out. I wish you luck as well.

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/9/2024 at 4:13 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

That’s about half of my dining room table that is covered—-and there are bags underneath not yet opened …. We were. just trying to learn here…..

VENI. VIDI. VICI.

Q.A.:  I'll get to this photo in a minute. Do me a favor Ricky, add R_R to The List. To know the players, you have to keep a scorecard.  Let me see those comments...

🐓:   Re:  I H C  1877... "not real, outright counterfeit, perhaps a token; obvious and crude replica; counterfeit coin; very poor fake, looks nothing like an original, etc."

Are none of you familiar with the terms, "play" money or "stage" money? Well, the '77 is of the same genus and species.  You do not dignity it with disclaimers. Take a good look at that table above.  Out of the h-u-n-d-r-e-d-s of coins a collector could have chosen to display -- including a "PIECE" dollar, harty-har-har! -- and with a half-century of "familiarity" with the subject matter under his belt, what does he choose for his Gloria Swanson "ready for my close-up moment?"  A toy coin such as one would find in a child's table game. Please!

 There are 24 posts on this Topic -- half of them by the OP which anyone with even a smidgen of situational awareness would realize ALL of the OP's concerns were addressed adeptly, in full, by Sandon in his very first post.

Halfway thru this slog, the OP makes an oblique comment, to-wit:  "I'm not renewing this account."  Pray tell, how does one accomplish this stupendous feat with a FREE membership?  That is of no moment to me. As Ricky 🐓 my trusted sidekick once observed, "be wary of anyone making a debut whose User Name ends in dot com."

A sage bit of advice to the OP:  You have made it abundantly clear you are interested in grading (and appraisals) but not selling, per se. My take is you're attempting to assume a monumental task encumbered by age and a lack of basic knowledge. If I were you, using the basic resources Sandon was kind enough to refer you to, I would separate the wheat from the chaff and let your son take things from there. You were most fortunate in that your family made a conscious decision to act in your best interests. I apologize for my intemperate remarks and sincerely wish you and yours all the very best.

(Posted at the discretion of Moderation)

 

[Just Bob]

On 7/9/2024 at 6:57 PM, J P M said:

Everyone has told you the best answers you can get. 

Not everyone.

[nubond@msn.com]

Lol….  let me paraphrase you “You do not dignity it with disclaimers.” (oops— but I know you appreciate correcting I-Phone-dictation of “Piece Dollars” vs. “Peace Dollars”…… Feel good? I’m so glad, as it must make you feel momentarily smart,  I have no “disclaimers” nor do I need one.  You’ve been highly successful in deriding us (yes there were a few of us actually reading these posts). Yeah, good job man! I’ve collected what’s valuable from many of the kinder, classy folks on this thread that keeps hitting my in-box— I said thanks more than once so can we stop now?  My husband wants me to pass his wishes to you—oh gosh, I guess I can’t repeat his thoughts, but it pertains to his views of you belittling his wife, again and again while ignoring the original question. So Charming. I’m sorry you were the last guy chosen for kickball at recess-those things do have a lasting effect. Stop replying to me-please. I’ve quit NGC— but we will make sure we do the opposite of whatever you advise in regard to our collection.

[ldhair]

Quitting NGC is not going to be helpful. There are other coin forums but you will find them to be much like this one. No matter where you go there will be opinions you don't agree with. It's healthy to gain as many opinions as possible and let them guide you in forming your own opinion. Over time you will learn the members you can trust the most. 

From the images it looks like you are making good progress in putting the coins in protective holders. It might be good to start creating a spreadsheet to capture the information as you learn it.

Most any collector would have a great time sorting a collection of this size. I'll bet there are gems hiding there. Have fun and enjoy the hobby. 

[VKurtB]

On 7/9/2024 at 1:15 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

do any of you know collectors sites that might be more appropriate for us as collectors to join to get advice on our various coins?  We also have gold coins that we know are not fake.  We haven’t gone to that point yet.  But we are just beginning and do not want to embarrass ourselves, but it sounds like I have by saying I would display this coin.  Again, my apologies.

This is the best site for collectors on the entire Internet. The others are loaded with scammers. 

[RWB]

On 7/8/2024 at 2:19 PM, nubond@msn.com said:

How do we get our fave coins graded so we can document our collection?  I attached one, but he has a few hundred coins.  We want to send the melt 

Here's you original question.

In addition to leaning  to grade coins for yourself, is to join a local coin club and ask for help. Many members will help you simply for the pleasure of looking at "fresh" coins and promoting a hobby they enjoy. Sending coins for independent grading, such as to NGC or ANACS, is only helpful if you already have a rough idea of the value of each coin and want the coin in one of their plastic capsules ("slab"). Since there is a cost of $15 to $35 for independent grading, you have to be sure that doing this will enhance the coin's resale value by at least that amount.

The item you attached is, unfortunately, a comically bad counterfeit of no value. It is so poor that members reacted harshly to the photo and not to your actual question. To be bunt, the photo made you look foolish as if you had not bothered to buy the most basic of US coin catalogues "A Guide Book of US Cons."

As for "We want to send the melt...." The statement is meaningless.

Members will be glad to help you, but you should consider how to present your questions in a more informed way.