need some imput on some 1943 steel pennies 1 1

[Dea231]

hey all new reseller and collector I stumbled across 3 almost pristine 1943 wheat pennies condition wise I will post photos shortly to help with further context, the concern I have is the pennies are very dirty and have natural build up of grime over the years, I was looking at getting them graded should I leave them in the state they are in or have ncs have a crack at them to restore them to their former glory. The added input would be helpful and greatly appreciated  

Edited Tuesday at 01:24 AM by Dea231

[Just Bob]

Welcome to The forum. I am going to politely suggest that anyone who does not know that using a toothbrush on a coin will immediately remove all numismatic value should probably try to get more education before they become a reseller.

 

[Dea231]

Normally I wouldn't dare clean or polish a coin but I think that the build up of stuff may effect the grade its why I am asking for input first before doing anything. its not my first rodeo but I wasn't sure about how to best handle the coins. whats the ole adage if you aren't 100% sure ask

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum @Dea231, sadly there is a lot of bad information on how to "safely" clean your coins on the internet.   Using a toothbrush or making a paste using household items are two of the most common and are both very detrimental to coins.   But let's get to the elephant in the room, what resource or thought process brought you to the conclusion that the steel cents you posted are in "pristine" condition?   These coins are in very poor condition and are obviously circulated, very very far from pristine.

This is what a pristine steel Lincoln cent looks like, no amount of conservation can make your coins look like this.

 

[Dea231]

I will admit one of them are in rougher shape but honestly look at this one once you get past the dirt and I think it's close 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 7/1/2024 at 6:20 PM, Dea231 said:

it's not my first rodeo

Did you work as a clown?

[Mike Meenderink]

On 7/1/2024 at 6:49 PM, Dea231 said:

once you get past the dirt and I think it's close 

Thats not dirt it's called corrosion. Please read a few books on coins before you come back here. Thanks. You get the award for nicest manicure today though! Congrats!

Edited Tuesday at 01:54 AM by Mike Meenderink

[Dea231]

On 7/1/2024 at 9:50 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Did you work as a clown?

I meant it as an off color joke. Sadly it wasn't taken that way. 

[Coinbuf]

On 7/1/2024 at 6:49 PM, Dea231 said:

I will admit one of them are in rougher shape but honestly look at this one once you get past the dirt and I think it's close 

Was this meant as an off color joke too, because if not you are in for a rough ride.   Let me be a bit more blunt , your coins are in horrible condition and are worth one cent each nothing more.   I'm not saying that to be mean nor do I get any pleasure from saying it, but that is the unvarnished truth.

Edited Tuesday at 01:58 AM by Coinbuf

[Dea231]

Appreciate the input, and thank you.

[Sandon]

    Welcome to the NGC chat board.

    Scrubbing a coin with a toothbrush or even treating a coin with even a mildly caustic substance such as soap will almost certainly affect its grade and value--NEGATIVELY.  Any abrasive or chemical process that changes the appearance of a coin is regarded as improper "cleaning" and is strongly disfavored by today's collectors, who want coins with original surfaces. Only the use of a neutral solvent such as acetone that only removes surface dirt and contaminants that have not reacted with the coin metal is acceptable.

   Your lightly circulated 1943 zinc coated steel cents are not dirty. The zinc coating turned dark as it reacted with the oils from human skin and other substances to which it was normally exposed and formed chemical compounds incorporating the zinc, such as zinc oxide. This is their natural appearance. Unfortunately, many thousands of such pieces were chemically processed or replated to have an unnatural shine and are practically worthless to knowledgeable collectors. The natural darkening process cannot be reversed, and coins cannot be restored "to their former glory" by the use of abrasives and chemicals. (One of your coins, the last one shown in your initial post, appears to have much of its original zinc coating and is close to mint state.)

   Even uncleaned, your 1943 steel cents are worth no more than forty cents to a dollar or two apiece retail as XF to AU or even low mint state pieces. See Lincoln Cents, Wheat Reverse (1909-1958) | Price Guide & Values | NGC (ngccoin.com). They certainly wouldn't be worth your "getting them graded", by which I assume you mean submitting them to a third-party grading service, which at NGC would involve a minimum $23 per coin "Economy" tier grading fee, plus processing and shipping costs. 

   Respectfully, you have much to learn before you start thinking about submitting coins to grading services, much less attempting to resell them to the public, which I assume you would want to do in an honest manner.  From what print and online sources are you obtaining your information about coins? 

   

[Dea231]

mostly I have been finding and reselling error coins misaligned dies and things like that, my knowledge base on wheat pennies other then the overall makeup of them and the years that are more valuable are the basis of my reselling. I also purchase silver and gold bullion and resell it. my most recent finds have been Mercury dimes error coins and Morgan dollars. Wheat pennies are normally something I resell in bulk or if I find an error coin that I can get graded and have confirmation of the error I resell. its part of my general reselling business, cards, art, music, ect. I rather be able to sleep well at night knowing I have been honest to my customers.  Example of some of my other items I am going to send in for verification and grading

Edited Tuesday at 02:32 AM by Dea231
Update and item showcase

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

On 7/1/2024 at 9:24 PM, Dea231 said:

mostly I have been finding and reselling error coins misaligned dies and things like that, my knowledge base on wheat pennies other then the overall makeup of them and the years that are more valuable are the basis of my reselling.

I am deeply concerned with this entire post. It seems you have edited out the part about using a toothbrush to clean 1943 Steel wheat cents. If you did not already know this is not an acceptable practice which is one of the most basic of the entire scope of coin collecting knowledge (never rub coins with any object including your own fingers), then I am scared to trust that you can identify properly what are error coins which is a whole different niche in the hobby with its own type of research and it is very advanced well beyond the basics of collecting.

I am not trying to be a jerk or condescending to you, as I would like for you to have the proper knowledge. I am simply stating from what I am reading it seems you need to get the basics down if . . .

On 7/1/2024 at 9:24 PM, Dea231 said:

I rather be able to sleep well at night knowing I have been honest to my customers.

. . . you want to be honest with your customers. Part of that might be being honest with yourself and that you still have a lot to learn. And that is ok. We all started in this hobby not knowing a darn thing about it. I will say there is no magic cheat code or speed course to learn this stuff. It takes a long time (errors even longer).

While there is professional conservation, I do not think it would help on your steel cents. Once the process of corrosion has taken effect on the surface, there is not really any way to bring it back to its original state. The original surface has been permanently altered by the corrosion. Much the same will happen if you take a toothbrush to a coin. Or even try to use soap and water and your fingers (and I'll still hold to it, or even a q-tip). This same applies to ALL coins, not just your steel cents. Professional conservation is able to remove some surface issues without damaging or altering the original surface, and it is proprietary secrets used so none of us here know how it is really done. It is not a magic wand, however, to be able to bring a coin back to just struck state. Even professional conservation at best can improve the appearance but that is not saying make it look like it was just struck.

As for your Mercury dimes, how accurate are your self grading skills? In regards to the one with BU on the flip, BU is a "generic" term for a coin that is in a low MS grade (MS 60-MS 62 typically, maybe MS 63 max). Would you know where to start the bidding in relation to grade and value in the series for the date, mintmark, and grade? If you can't get reasonably close other than to say BU, you can't really be fully honest to your customers. You have to tell them of impairments (whether you see hairlines from previous cleaning or see damage or see corrosion or point out small spots or tiny marks), tell them if they are or are not full bands, give them a baseline of your self grade with the caveat of please judge the grade for yourself from the photos. Nobody is saying you need to be 100 percent spot on in your self grading to make a listing or a sale, but an honest listing should have a description of what the coin looks like in hand and a pretty close self judgement of grade that is not wildly off of what the true grade is.

When it comes to selling, you have to remember it is your reputation on the line. If you are honest AND knowledgeable, that will go a long way to establishing and maintaining your credibility. You have to remember you are also selling to people who may have no knowledge of coins and are going off of your evaluation of the coin, whether it is right or wrong. Once again, 100 percent perfection is not necessary but you need to come CLOSE to being accurate as a seller if you want to maintain your reputation and credibility. Once you make bad sales for coins that are misrepresented and that starts to get around, and believe me, it WILL get around, it is nearly impossible to bounce back and regain credibility once it is lost.

I know this response is long winded, but I felt needed to be said from what I read here. As for NCS conservation of these steel cents, I don't think it would help as I think the surfaces are already too far gone. This zinc coated steel is not as forgiving as copper and surely not as forgiving as silver or gold.

I can't see all the dates on your Mercs but your 43's I would say are not good candidates to submit as Mercs that late in the series need to grade at bare minimum MS 65 FB to even come close to a break even with grading costs. I can't see the dates or mintmarks on the others to give an opinion.

I think there is more you need to learn before thinking of submitting coins as well. As I said, not trying to be a jerk, just trying to be helpful based upon what I am reading here. 

Edited Tuesday at 10:47 PM by powermad5000

[Dea231]

All good points, but the reason why I am sending in the mercury dimes is because of the confirmation of the errors I spotted, I had purchased them in bulk already pregraded. To fact check myself while getting to the point to know that my grading skills are up to snuff I am starting to form baseline scores outside of those marks independently. I then send the coins in as a way of verification, any coins that comes in my door I look over with a 30 x jewelry loupe and see if anything is odd or strange marks, scratches, die alignment issues dates, and mint marks. If I have anything at all I question, I have others look over them because I am rather new. Sending coins in to get graded is expensive but with the other products i am selling i can afford to pay for missing the mark and learning before i start really self grading the inventory, I do alot of leg work to make sure things are real and that anything I list or sell has been at least vetted or pregraded by people alot more knowledgeable then I am. To add to that any error coins that I am finding, (outside of the ones i already purchased pregraded or vetted.) I am submitting to get graded that are worth around ten dollars intrinsically for the time being.

Edited Tuesday at 10:54 AM by Dea231
Better phrasing, better phrasing x2

[RWB]

1. Before striking cheap steel was coated with zinc to limit rust. Zinc is bright when fresh, but slight handling produces dark, unattractive tarnish. When normal circulation dust, finger oil and abrasion are added to the mix, 1943 cents get "grubby looking" very quickly. A lot of these have been cleaned and replated for use in cheap bangles and novelty items. Dimes of the same era, being 90% silver 10% copper look somewhat better; however, nothing can restore a coin to its original appearance.

2. None of the coins illustrated are worth sending to a grading company.

3. Please consider the advice other members have given you about trying to sell coins without much better knowledge of numismatics. Members will help, if you ask.

[Dea231]

Thank you for the input, will look into doing more research and reaching out more here, likely would save me alot of the leg work I have been doing these last few months

[Sandon]

   Based on the photos, all of the "Mercury" dimes you showed appear to have been "cleaned", some with silver polish, and the coin that is marked "BU" appears to have light wear. These coins are only worth silver value or slightly more and should not be sold for more. Learning how to grade and otherwise evaluate coins yourself is an essential part of becoming a competent collector or dealer.

   One should not assume that a coin is a "mint error" because it looks odd in some way. The vast majority of coins that people claim to be mint errors on this site are coins that were damaged, intentionally altered, or exhibit minor errors or quality control issues that are very common and have little or no market value. You also seem to be confusing die varieties such as repunched mintmarks with mint errors. In 53 years of collecting and studying U.S. coins and checking change, I have never found any error or other coin worth more than a few dollars and know only one collector who ever has. Mint errors and die varieties are advanced topics in numismatics, and you need a background in more basic subjects first. If you're submitting coins that you think are attributable as mint errors to grading services without understanding what they're supposed to look like or are worth you're bound to lose a great deal of money, grossly overcharge for whatever you do find, or both. (The minimum grading fee at NGC would be $19 for a coin dated 1965 or later, $23 for one earlier, plus an $18 error or variety attribution fee--you would have to choose the correct one--plus substantial shipping and processing costs, so I don't know why you would submit a coin you think is worth "around $10".)

   I previously asked you what print and online resources you are using to learn about coins and received no reply. Here are the forum topics identifying such resources that I suggest. You should also attend such venues as coin shows and coin club meetings where you can examine a variety of professionally graded and attributed coins and speak with knowledgeable collectors and dealers. I request that you refrain from selling coins to the public until you have obtained the requisite knowledge.

 

[Henri Charriere]

After giving this Topic the once over, from beginning to end -- and mind you, wth a considerable amount of thought from the most favorable viewpoint of the OP, I can sum if up, begrudgingly, as, No Comment.