• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Would this 1905 Indian head cent be able to get a grade?
1 1

Started by Halbrook Family,

24 posts in this topic

Sandon

Sandon

Posted
Posted (edited)

   Unfortunately, the coin has very likely been chemically recolored, nowadays described as having been "cleaned". Based on the photos, the color doesn't look right and is too even and the surfaces look too glossy yet lackluster.  Brown uncirculated Indian cents are relatively common and are all too often recolored to look like this. You could take the chance of submitting this coin at the "Economy" ($23) tier, but it is likely to come back as "Uncirculated Details, Cleaned."

    If you look at Indian cents graded full "red" by major grading services, even in high numerical grades, you will almost invariably find minor carbon spotting, variations in color on different parts of the coin's surface, and even light fingerprints notwithstanding a frosty luster and mostly rich orange color that are different from this coin. It is almost impossible for a copper coin this age to be spotless and pristine. Check out, for example those on PCGS Coinfacts for this date at https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1895-1c-rd/2192.

   It's also unlikely that nowadays someone would knowingly sell you a full original "red" uncirculated Indian cent uncertified in a stapled 2 x 2 holder or not charge you anything approaching the market price (hundreds of dollars) for such a coin. Remember, "there is no Santa Claus in numismatics!"

   

Edited by Sandon
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Coinbuf

Coinbuf

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the updated photos, your spidy sense should be going off like a five alarm fire on this coin.   It looks like it has been whizzed and recolored, as @Sandon wrote the color is too even and the luster too satin and muted for the detail you see on this coin, it just looks all wrong.    I would have to see the coin in hand to be sure but this looks to have been worked over.

Additionally, while this is a rather common date it is still a $1,000+ coin in gem or better grades, why would a seller not have such a valuable coin graded prior to selling is the question I would be asking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sandon

Sandon

Posted
Posted (edited)

   As you're not familiar with what the original color of these coins is supposed to look like, I recommend that you only buy them in reputable third-party grading service holders. Full "red" pieces can be quite expensive, but "red and brown" ones in "64" or so grade can be reasonable ($150-200 late 1890s to 1909). 

   "Dipping" is somewhat acceptable (though usually grade lowering) for silver coins, but copper coins that have been dipped are regarded as improperly "cleaned".

Edited by Sandon
Link to comment
Share on other sites
powermad5000

powermad5000

Posted
Posted

I would say your initial 1895 IHC if graded would return with a label that says UNC Details - Altered Color. Very early on in my submissions, I sent one that looked just like it and that is what it returned as. I lost a lot of money between assuming incorrectly it would come back as RD and also the subsequent loss from grading with the returning details grade that dropped its selling price well below what I initially paid for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sandon

Sandon

Posted
Posted

    The term "spot removed" on the 1874 Indian cent means exactly that. The coin had a dark carbon spot that someone treated with a chemical to make it lighten or "disappear", but this alteration is detectable to trained eyes.  The coin is now worth less than if it had been left alone.

    The 1909 is definitely recolored or "cleaned" in much the same manner as the 1895. (You should correct the title of this topic.)

    The obverse image of the 1877 doesn't allow me to make a definite statement, but I question its authenticity as well as its originality. An image of the reverse might help somewhat. Once again, it's highly unlikely that a legitimate seller would offer such a rare coin in a high grade uncertified and with a rough description such as "Au/Unc." A real one even in original AU 50 would be worth a lot more than $1,227, and there would be huge increases in value from that grade upward.

   I don't own any full "red" Indian cents but have several "red and browns". Here is an 1895 NGC graded MS 64 RB:

1895centobv..thumb.jpg.4d20bb1085ef79e36447a56ad6adca49.jpg

1895centrev..thumb.jpg.115c3d66948ba3d90a961adce37651a7.jpg

   Note how the color and luster are quite different from the images of the recolored pieces you have posted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
powermad5000

powermad5000

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 6/30/2024 at 4:03 PM, Halbrook Family said:

What is this one about?

Exactly as Sandon stated. It had a spot of discoloration that someone was not happy with and attempted to remove it either by chemical or mechanical means. Either way, whatever the attempt made was, it permanently altered/damaged the surface in just that spot, not across the entire side of the coin. I have one of these and I still like the look so I have decided to keep it. The spot is by the first S in STATES.

IMG_20170725_165619.jpg

Edited by powermad5000
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
1 1
Go to topic listing