Tampered PCGS and NGC slabs... how can you tell? 1 1

[Carterofmars]

I have a coin in my collection that's appreciated nicely since I bought years ago, and I'm thinking to send it in for a CAC sticker.  I was always wondering how easy it would be to break these open and swap for a lesser grade.  This slab has a few very minute marks at the seam, and I was hoping to get opinions about this.  I took close up pics with some in blacklight because I read that the use of a blacklight might reveal tampering and, I guess, reglueing? 

 

The coin looks good for the grade as well.

Edited June 20 by Carterofmars

[RWB]

There does not seem to be any clear evidence of tampering. Long wave UV is only useful for detecting a material that fluoresces in UV. Short wave UV might show a different range of materials, but special precautions are needed to protect vision, skin and many ordinary materials from damage.

Nice coin with a little above average detail.

Edited June 20 by RWB

[ldhair]

Nice coin. The slab looks normal to me. 

[Henri Charriere]

Honestly, the only way I would know is if I were to submit it to a Set Registry and were told otherwise.

In the five years I have been collecting encapsulated coins, PCGS started vetting coins before accepting them for inclusion on their Set Registries [with NGC quickly following suit] and Near-Field Technology (NFT) basically slabs outfitted with computer chips, was introduced.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Cool pics.

[powermad5000]

Good pics!

Slabs can sustain damage from ordinary handling and improper handling such as accidentally dropping the slab on the floor and it hits on the side causing some cracks. I have seen some slabs with a corner missing. Things happen. 

What you can do is look up the slab through the respective TPG and verify the certification number. This has its limits however because early slabs that were made before the TPG did imaging won't be able to be looked at with a photo to go with it. Also, if the TPG makes an error in the imaging which seems to happen quite a bit where there is either no image or the more rare case of an image of a different coin entirely, there can be difficulty using their verification service.

Basically look it up by the slab number first and try to verify it through their image. If the coin has a particular feature such as a scratch in a particular place and your coin has the exact matching scratch, that is a good indication your slab was not tampered with. Outside of that, sadly you are left to self grade the coin in your slab and see if it basically matches what the grade says.

The fake slabs can be quite deceiving but some of them have some tells such as weak ink, incorrect cert numbers, or errors in spelling or mismatched dates. Also, they might not have the holograms issued by the TPG or the hologram is incorrect. There was an individual arrested some years ago for switching coins in NGC holders with lower graded specimens and reselling the tampered slabs as higher graded coins. There was not much information given about the look of the tampered slabs, maybe because it was done well and they didn't want to let on to how it was done.

This can be just as difficult an undertaking as is determining counterfeit versus real, so the best you can do is your due diligence.

Edited June 21 by powermad5000

[J P M]

Your coin got a good reply from Roger. I think he may know a little about Peace Dollars . It looks like a nice coin and holder to me.

Edited June 21 by J P M

[USAuPzlBxBob]

What I'd like to see is an entire slab black light photo that is angled just enough to present the coin with interesting detail.

For example, have Liberty's crown spikes exhibiting some red-violet edging so that the coin has an otherworldly appearance to it.

You've hit upon the "look" a little, but you may find you can really amp up the appearance if you have many black light photos to choose from.

Get good at this photographic technique and you'll become renown on the boards here.

[Carterofmars]

On 6/21/2024 at 6:45 AM, J P M said:

Your coin got a good reply from Roger. I think he may know a little about Peace Dollars . It looks like a nice coin and holder to me.

I'm assuming Powermad5000 is Roger.  🙂

Edited June 21 by Carterofmars

[Sandon]

On 6/21/2024 at 12:46 PM, Carterofmars said:

I'm assuming Powermad5000 is Roger.

  No, "Roger" is @RWB (Roger W. Burdette), a published numismatic author, one of whose books, I recall, concerns the development of Peace dollars and other classic U.S. coin types introduced in the 1908-1921 era.  

   I concur that the holder is likely just scuffed, as frequently occurs. Based on the photos, the coin appears to be genuine and reasonably graded. The relatively rare but still troublesome appearance of tampered with or counterfeit grading service holders is just one of the reasons why even collectors who only buy certified coins should have good grading and authentication skills themselves.  A coin in a counterfeit or tampered with holder is likely to be counterfeit, substantially overgraded, or misidentified and will likely be recognizable as such by an astute collector, who doesn't just go by what the label says.

[Carterofmars]

On 6/21/2024 at 2:06 PM, Sandon said:

  No, "Roger" is @RWB (Roger W. Burdette), a published numismatic author, one of whose books, I recall, concerns the development of Peace dollars and other classic U.S. coin types introduced in the 1908-1921 era.  

   I concur that the holder is likely just scuffed, as frequently occurs. Based on the photos, the coin appears to be genuine and reasonably graded. The relatively rare but still troublesome appearance of tampered with or counterfeit grading service holders is just one of the reasons why even collectors who only buy certified coins should have good grading and authentication skills themselves.  A coin in a counterfeit or tampered with holder is likely to be counterfeit, substantially overgraded, or misidentified and will likely be recognizable as such by an astute collector, who doesn't just go by what the label says.

Oh!  This Roger?  😮

I'm in the process of digesting that absolutely  great book now! 

[Carterofmars]

On 6/21/2024 at 12:46 AM, powermad5000 said:

Good pics!

Slabs can sustain damage from ordinary handling and improper handling such as accidentally dropping the slab on the floor and it hits on the side causing some cracks. I have seen some slabs with a corner missing. Things happen. 

What you can do is look up the slab through the respective TPG and verify the certification number. This has its limits however because early slabs that were made before the TPG did imaging won't be able to be looked at with a photo to go with it. Also, if the TPG makes an error in the imaging which seems to happen quite a bit where there is either no image or the more rare case of an image of a different coin entirely, there can be difficulty using their verification service.

Basically look it up by the slab number first and try to verify it through their image. If the coin has a particular feature such as a scratch in a particular place and your coin has the exact matching scratch, that is a good indication your slab was not tampered with. Outside of that, sadly you are left to self grade the coin in your slab and see if it basically matches what the grade says.

The fake slabs can be quite deceiving but some of them have some tells such as weak ink, incorrect cert numbers, or errors in spelling or mismatched dates. Also, they might not have the holograms issued by the TPG or the hologram is incorrect. There was an individual arrested some years ago for switching coins in NGC holders with lower graded specimens and reselling the tampered slabs as higher graded coins. There was not much information given about the look of the tampered slabs, maybe because it was done well and they didn't want to let on to how it was done.

This can be just as difficult an undertaking as is determining counterfeit versus real, so the best you can do is your due diligence.

Thank you Roger!   Your guide is immensely helpful.  This page really helped with strikes. 👍👍👍

[powermad5000]

On 6/27/2024 at 2:38 PM, Carterofmars said:

Thank you Roger!   Your guide is immensely helpful.  This page really helped with strikes. 👍👍👍

For the record, Powermad5000 is NOT Roger!