INAUTHENTIC. OR. COUNTERFEIT. What's the difference? 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

I only have a fifty-year affiliation with the hobby which, admittedly, is a lot less than those who boast of attending President William McKinley's inauguration.

If that be the case, would any member more erudite on such matters, and so disposed, volunteer what they feel may be the defining distinction between a coin deemed to be inauthentic which to me seems to be a more polite, less judgmental way of dismissing a coin as being a counterfeit.

[VKurtB]

On 5/4/2024 at 5:36 PM, Henri Charriere said:

I only have a fifty-year affiliation with the hobby which, admittedly, is a lot less than those who boast of attending President William McKinley's inauguration.

If that be the case, would any member more erudite on such matters, and so disposed, volunteer what they feel may be the defining distinction between a coin deemed to be inauthentic which to me seems to be a more polite, less judgmental way of dismissing a coin as being a counterfeit.

Inauthentic comprises a larger number of faults than does counterfeit, DESPITE the likelihood that Roger uses them interchangeably. Roger misuses many words. 

Edited May 4 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

I know I have said this before but it bears repeating.

Some judges keep a tight rein on courtroom proceedings (one even "ordering" a deputy USM go fetch a sport coat for a defendant who appeared before him in jail garb.)

When one witness embarked on a scenic tour whilst on the stand, the jusge, unprompted, directed the AUSA to instruct his witness to be more responsive.

As regarding our Grand Master, it may cost me more than I am willing to lose, but I am seriously entertaining the thought of suggesting your ongoing Hatfields and McCoys sniping was approved by top NGC management to keep things interesting on the Forum.  The "crimes" you have cited as having been committed are, if they even rise to that level, little more than miscellaneous differences of opinion which all are entitled to.

(Posted at Moderation's discretion.)

[VKurtB]

On 5/4/2024 at 6:16 PM, Henri Charriere said:

I know I have said this before but it bears repeating.

Some judges keep a tight rein on courtroom proceedings (one even "ordering" a deputy USM go fetch a sport coat for a defendant who appeared before him in jail garb.)

When one witness embarked on a scenic tour whilst on the stand, the jusge, unprompted, directed the AUSA to instruct his witness to be more responsive.

As regarding our Grand Master, it may cost me more than I am willing to lose, but I am seriously entertaining the thought of suggesting your ongoing Hatfields and McCoys sniping was approved by top NGC management to keep things interesting on the Forum.  The "crimes" you have cited as having been committed are, if they even rise to that level, little more than miscellaneous differences of opinion which all are entitled to.

(Posted at Moderation's discretion.)

All my characterizations are strictly my own, and I stand by them. I act with a complete LACK OF CONCERN what you, or anyone else here (and I do mean ANYONE) thinks of my opinions. 

[cobymordet]

On 5/4/2024 at 5:46 PM, VKurtB said:

Inauthentic comprises a larger number of faults than does counterfeit

I am intrigued, inauthentic just seems inappropriate as a descriptor for coins.  VKurtB, would you have an example in mind?

[VKurtB]

On 5/4/2024 at 6:57 PM, cobymordet said:

I am intrigued, inauthentic just seems inappropriate as a descriptor for coins.  VKurtB, would you have an example in mind?

Tribute pieces, tourist pieces, replicas. See often, our Newbie discussion section. One example is the so-called “California Fractional” pieces that have a bear on them. Since there never was a true fractional with a bear on it, how can these pieces be considered counterfeits? No, they are inauthentic.

Edited May 5 by VKurtB

[cobymordet]

On 5/4/2024 at 7:06 PM, VKurtB said:

Since there never was a true fractional with a bear on it, how can these pieces be considered counterfeits?

Thank you for the example.  My simple mind likes pretty pictures to to aid in the illustration of clarification. 

[Henri Charriere]

ATTENTION  MODERATION:

Whether I like it or not, whether I approve of it or not, I can not and will not, countenance the misuse of a topic I introduce in good faith to be perverted, as it were, by anyone (and I do mean ANYONE) other than a Newbie who simply would not know better, as a springboard for spontaneous, superfluous, entirely gratuitous, venomous vitriol of a highly personal, essentially undignified nature better suited for private and confidential communication.

Consequently, it is my desire  THIS TOPIC NOW BE CLOSED TO FURTHER REPLIES.

Henri Charrier,  Associate Member,  CS 114 400

Sunday, May 5, 2024, 0523 HRS.  BATTLE OF PUEBLA DAY  (MEXICO) 

Cinco de Mayo marks the anniversary by the 1862 victory by Mexican troops over invading French forces at the Battle of Puebla.

[RWB]

The accepted/most common antonym of "authentic" is "false." (The OP might intend "unauthentic" when writing "inauthentic.")

A good synonym is "genuine."

"False" and "counterfeit" have different meanings which depend on context.

Edited May 5 by RWB

[zadok]

On 5/4/2024 at 9:47 PM, Henri Charriere said:

🐓:  I don't know, Q. Out of all the people you chose to send my kid brother to, why him?  If it'd've been me, I would have had enough presence of mind -- if it were personal -- to simply say, You wouldn't understand. And drop it.

Q.A.:  There is a disconnect here but there are also mitigating health issues.  My closest friends tell me if I don't do more to block my wife's free access to OTC sleep meds, I will wind up in stir. Now with Kurt, there seems to be an awful lot of defensiveness, hostile language, misplaced anger and a general lack of gratitude. The Topic, I thought, was pretty straight-forward. I guess I just don't get it.

🐓:  Did you read what the doctor wrote about your wife?  Involuntary tremors due to overmedication.  You can't even find the meds, because you've forgotten where you've hidden them all. It's like musical meds. Now if you push Kurt on this nonsense, suppose something happens?

🐓  :  What's the worse that can happen?

Q.A.: Sound of gavel banging down, followed by... L I F E !

P.S.  Now I understand why you asked, "Are you sure you want to do this?"  I do, but knowing you now as well as I do, I can easily understand why you weren't.  Sorry, I bothered.  I do not believe I deserved that kind of a response -- not the first on a public forum.

(To Moderation:  a bit personal. May be taken down as unsuitable under any topic.)

 

...to summarize:...nothing 

[zadok]

On 5/5/2024 at 5:32 AM, Henri Charriere said:

ATTENTION  MODERATION:

Whether I like it or not, whether I approve of it or not, I can not and will not, countenance the misuse of a topic I introduce in good faith to be perverted, as it were, by anyone (and I do mean ANYONE) other than a Newbie who simply would not know better, as a springboard for spontaneous, superfluous, entirely gratuitous, venomous vitriol of a highly personal, essentially undignified nature better suited for private and confidential communication.

Consequently, it is my desire  THIS TOPIC NOW BE CLOSED TO FURTHER REPLIES.

Henri Charrier,  Associate Member,  CS 114 400

Sunday, May 5, 2024, 0523 HRS.  BATTLE OF PUEBLA DAY  (MEXICO) 

Cinco de Mayo marks the anniversary by the 1862 victory by Mexican troops over invading French forces at the Battle of Puebla.

...to summarize:...again nothing

[zadok]

On 5/4/2024 at 8:06 PM, VKurtB said:

Tribute pieces, tourist pieces, replicas. See often, our Newbie discussion section. One example is the so-called “California Fractional” pieces that have a bear on them. Since there never was a true fractional with a bear on it, how can these pieces be considered counterfeits? No, they are inauthentic.

...thats a decent observation if it never existed it cant be counterfeited....

[RWB]

On 5/5/2024 at 3:27 PM, zadok said:

On 5/4/2024 at 8:06 PM, VKurtB said:

Tribute pieces, tourist pieces, replicas. See often, our Newbie discussion section. One example is the so-called “California Fractional” pieces that have a bear on them. Since there never was a true fractional with a bear on it, how can these pieces be considered counterfeits? No, they are inauthentic.

...thats a decent observation if it never existed it cant be counterfeited....

The authentic so-called "California Fractional" pieces are original fantasy pieces made by a jewelry company. In themselves, as noted above, they are not counterfeits. Fractional pieces of similar form made in the 1840s-50s originated in California, but were never manufactured to even the low standards of most private issues. This encourages the opinion that they were made for profit, for jewelry, and possibly to cheat the illiterate.

However, once an item such as either of the above, is accepted by collectors and resellers, Unmarked copies could be treated as true "counterfeits" because their intent is to defraud rather than ornament. Therein is the context.

Hobby Protection Act

Law: 5 U.S.C. §§ 2101-2106

Links: http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml

 

This Act, amended by the Collectible Coin Protection Act, Pub. L. No. 113-288, 128 Stat. 3281, prohibits manufacturing or importing imitation political items, and manufacturing, importing, or selling imitation numismatic items, unless they are marked in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Federal Trade Commission.

[zadok]

On 5/5/2024 at 5:12 PM, RWB said:

The authentic so-called "California Fractional" pieces are original fantasy pieces made by a jewelry company. In themselves, as noted above, they are not counterfeits. Fractional pieces of similar form made in the 1840s-50s originated in California, but were never manufactured to even the low standards of most private issues. This encourages the opinion that they were made for profit, for jewelry, and possibly to cheat the illiterate.

However, once an item such as either of the above, is accepted by collectors and resellers, Unmarked copies could be treated as true "counterfeits" because their intent is to defraud rather than ornament. Therein is the context.

Hobby Protection Act

 

Law: 5 U.S.C. §§ 2101-2106

 

Links: http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml

 

 

 

This Act, amended by the Collectible Coin Protection Act, Pub. L. No. 113-288, 128 Stat. 3281, prohibits manufacturing or importing imitation political items, and manufacturing, importing, or selling imitation numismatic items, unless they are marked in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Federal Trade Commission.

 

...interesting..."true counterfeits" r such because there was intent to defraud, so dan carr's coins were never intended to defraud therefore can never be considered "counterfeits"...thanks for clearing that bit up....

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/4/2024 at 7:16 PM, Henri Charriere said:

As regarding our Grand Master, it may cost me more than I am willing to lose, but I am seriously entertaining the thought of suggesting your ongoing Hatfields and McCoys sniping was approved by top NGC management to keep things interesting on the Forum.  The "crimes" you have cited as having been committed are, if they even rise to that level, little more than miscellaneous differences of opinion which all are entitled to.

(Posted at Moderation's discretion.)