Of the 333 million presumably alive and well and residing in the United States today, how many are "coin collectors?" 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/19/2024 at 3:34 PM, VKurtB said:

The TPGS have to know how many members they have. It’s a simple database record count. 

Do they?  The most popular (not longest running) thread is helmed by a person working [permanently] from a remote location.  Closer to home, I dare say half the members who follow you, while presumably real, are relative unknowns. Now there's a newly instituted rule:  publish or perish!  If you do not speak up, you are not formally acknowledged.  It's right there enshrined in policy. When does a pedestrian stop being a pedestrian? When he stops walking.

I will be back with a new moniker by summer and, as habit will have it, there will be those who will continue to persist in calling me by my former User Names.  If anyone is a faithful, satisfied customer, it's Ricky. I guess he's kind of an honorary member. And it is my understanding, he is in good hands.  🤣

[RWB]

Here's a simple Census Bureau population diagram as of Dec 31, 2023. Population for age 10 and under is essentially non-involved. Age 10-20 is limited new involvement; from 20 to about 40 is likely limited or intermittent involvement, and 40 to 70 would be primary acquisition & involvement. Above 70 is the deaccession phase. Several generations ago the collector population would have skewed lower largely because of collection from circulation and very low premium on added value. (That is, a coin collection represented limited loss compared to base value of the pieces. This began to change in the 1950s and was declining rapidly in the mid-1960s.)

A situation which has not changed is strong dominance by males in all aspects of coin collecting.

[Henri Charriere]

To our Grand Master:

I see where a great many males (sex, assigned at birth) have fled for reasons better left unsaid to the other side.  What intrigues me is Zero Recall on my part as to the presence of any questions regarding the care, custody and control of coins on my part as well as any self-report on my part of being of the Caucasian persuasion on official Census forms.

I thank Roger for setting aside time from his busy schedule to broaden the body of knowledge of collectors on this Forum and accept the results of his findings, unconditionally and unequivocally.

[powermad5000]

I had another thought this morning on this topic. To add twist to attempting to achieve the goal of figuring out this number, I started thinking about some lower mintages of older issues. I'll just use the 1916 D Mercury Dime as an example. With only 264,000 minted, if there were more than 264,000 collectors of older coinage and especially these dimes, none of these would be available for sale as they would all be residing and filling that slot in each collection, yet, there are still many examples available for sale and these come up in AG and G in auctions frequently. That means either collectors don't want it in these grades or that there are not that many collectors to deplete the number for them to be available.

Which led me to think then we have collectors all scattered about all the different issues and some who only collect by specialty such as error collectors. We have collectors who collect only ASE's and nothing else. We have collectors that only collect Lincoln Wheats and nothing else. We have collectors that only collect anything from the Barber series (dimes, quarters, halves) and nothing else. We have collectors that only collect Capped Bust halves and nothing else. This then also adds to the impossibility of trying to pin down the total number of collectors overall.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/16/2024 at 7:52 PM, World Colonial said:

On the number of collectors? Even aside from definitional differences, it's not possible.

How about any of the Big National Shows -- FUN, Long Beach, ANA, etc. -- having vendor and public attendnace so we can do an apples-to-apples comparison ?

Not looking for exact numbes, just ballpark.

[VKurtB]

On 4/23/2024 at 3:02 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

How about any of the Big National Shows -- FUN, Long Beach, ANA, etc. -- having vendor and public attendnace so we can do an apples-to-apples comparison ?

Not looking for exact numbes, just ballpark.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO activity that a majority of collectors engage in. All are minority activities. Not NGC nor P¢G$ membership, not ANA membership, not attendance at any show, not buying or selling on FleaBay. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/23/2024 at 4:09 PM, VKurtB said:

There is ABSOLUTELY NO activity that a majority of collectors engage in. All are minority activities. Not NGC nor P¢G$ membership, not ANA membership, not attendance at any show, not buying or selling on FleaBay. 

If an obituary or epitaph were written for philately, I never came across one.  Surely someone in that field of endeavor must have foreseen the future and assessed it as bleak.  I wonder what tools they employed to gauge the health of the hobby? Deltiology, too.  How does one define the beginnings of a precipitous decline or sudden invigoration of a hobby?  It would be interesting to review what the doomsday prophets foresaw as regarding those now low-profile pursuits. Not surprisingly, "Debbie downers" are not encouraged to provide the proof true hobbyists would demand. 

Coin collection, and it's related offshoots, has changed and I would argue in some ways for the better. Others may feel abandoned.  There are a number of collectors here who have self-reported an aversion to formal grading. My question to those of my esteemed colleagues is, Fine, you have mastered the art of the grading. Problem is, those who engage in this religious practice have also indicated they have no inclination to sell. Malheureusement, without hard facts gleaned from bona-fide sales, how would one be able to distinguish whether self-appraised coins [where allowed] have performed as well, or better, than those that have been formally certified and enshrined in plastic? The recurrent refrain is those perilous waters will be left to to their heirs to navigate.

[VKurtB]

On 4/23/2024 at 11:31 PM, Henri Charriere said:

If an obituary or epitaph were written for philately, I never came across one.  Surely someone in that field of endeavor must have foreseen the future and assessed it as bleak.  I wonder what tools they employed to gauge the health of the hobby? Deltiology, too.  How does one define the beginnings of a precipitous decline or sudden invigoration of a hobby?  It would be interesting to review what the doomsday prophets foresaw as regarding those now low-profile pursuits. Not surprisingly, "Debbie downers" are not encouraged to provide the proof true hobbyists would demand. 

Coin collection, and it's related offshoots, has changed and I would argue in some ways for the better. Others may feel abandoned.  There are a number of collectors here who have self-reported an aversion to formal grading. My question to those of my esteemed colleagues is, Fine, you have mastered the art of the grading. Problem is, those who engage in this religious practice have also indicated they have no inclination to sell. Malheureusement, without hard facts gleaned from bona-fide sales, how would one be able to distinguish whether self-appraised coins [where allowed] have performed as well, or better, than those that have been formally certified and enshrined in plastic? The recurrent refrain is those perilous waters will be left to to their heirs to navigate.

For so-called “important” collections, so far it has been both. Among the top U.S. collections that come onto the auction market, they have overwhelmingly been raw while still in the hands of the collectors. Frequently the submission for grading and slabbing is done by the auction house, as part of preparing the collection for sale, at GREATLY reduced rates from the “normal” prices. As time marches on, more material will arrive in the market already slabbed, but we’re faaaaaar from a majority in that status.

As for the world coin market, slabbed is still a tiny minority. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/24/2024 at 11:25 AM, VKurtB said:

For so-called “important” collections, so far it has been both. Among the top U.S. collections that come onto the auction market, they have overwhelmingly been raw while still in the hands of the collectors. Frequently the submission for grading and slabbing is done by the auction house, as part of preparing the collection for sale, at GREATLY reduced rates from the “normal” prices. As time marches on, more material will arrive in the market already slabbed, but we’re faaaaaar from a majority in that status....

 I would be willing to bet the average collector never gave this much thought. I was not aware collections being prepared for sale at auctions are done so at greatly reduced fees Then again, that cost is ultimately passed on to buyers.

[VKurtB]

On 4/24/2024 at 10:51 AM, Henri Charriere said:

 I would be willing to bet the average collector never gave this much thought. I was not aware collections being prepared for sale at auctions are done so at greatly reduced fees Then again, that cost is ultimately passed on to buyers.

When you’re a major auction house, ALL fees are negotiable. This includes all fees PAID and all fees CHARGED. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/24/2024 at 11:53 AM, VKurtB said:

When you’re a major auction house, ALL fees are negotiable. This includes all fees PAID and all fees CHARGED. 

I appreciate this insider knowledge.  I am not a haggler so when, say, a buyer speaking in stentorian tones with the requisite aura of power says, Take it, or Leave it, I very likely would.  Looks like your lifetime of selflessness is going to yield a handsome dividend for your family.

[World Colonial]

On 4/19/2024 at 5:45 PM, RWB said:

Here's a simple Census Bureau population diagram as of Dec 31, 2023. Population for age 10 and under is essentially non-involved. Age 10-20 is limited new involvement; from 20 to about 40 is likely limited or intermittent involvement, and 40 to 70 would be primary acquisition & involvement. Above 70 is the deaccession phase. Several generations ago the collector population would have skewed lower largely because of collection from circulation and very low premium on added value. (That is, a coin collection represented limited loss compared to base value of the pieces. This began to change in the 1950s and was declining rapidly in the mid-1960s.)

A situation which has not changed is strong dominance by males in all aspects of coin collecting.

There are also differences by ethnic group and the proportion of the population represented by these groups has increased.  It's evident that the participation rate by many currently defined ethnic minorities is effectively zero, unless someone is now going to tell me that there are really large numbers of these people collecting coins from another culture at "meaningful" financial levels which I do not believe.

[World Colonial]

On 4/21/2024 at 3:41 PM, powermad5000 said:

I had another thought this morning on this topic. To add twist to attempting to achieve the goal of figuring out this number, I started thinking about some lower mintages of older issues. I'll just use the 1916 D Mercury Dime as an example. With only 264,000 minted, if there were more than 264,000 collectors of older coinage and especially these dimes, none of these would be available for sale as they would all be residing and filling that slot in each collection, yet, there are still many examples available for sale and these come up in AG and G in auctions frequently. That means either collectors don't want it in these grades or that there are not that many collectors to deplete the number for them to be available.

Which led me to think then we have collectors all scattered about all the different issues and some who only collect by specialty such as error collectors. We have collectors who collect only ASE's and nothing else. We have collectors that only collect Lincoln Wheats and nothing else. We have collectors that only collect anything from the Barber series (dimes, quarters, halves) and nothing else. We have collectors that only collect Capped Bust halves and nothing else. This then also adds to the impossibility of trying to pin down the total number of collectors overall.

As I wrote in my earlier post, if the collector base is actually as large as some of the numbers stated here, we'd be running into them regularly.  This is particularly true since the participation rate among most demographic groups is so much lower than the primary one. approaching zero often and they represent a noticeable proportion of the US population.  If five or 10 million "active" collectors, then that's potentially between one in 10 to 20 Caucasian males.  That's far too high.

Who owns these coins and how many are there?  I have no idea.  I admit it.

Concurrently, it's been my assumption that "investment" type US coinage (the more common Morgan and Peace dollars and pre-1933 US gold) is predominantly bought for financial reasons.  There is too much of it and it's too expensive for it to owned by hobbyist collectors in more than low proportion.

For the 1916-D dime, my recollection is PCGS Coin Facts estimates 10,000.  Even accounting for duplicates, seems far too low.  I'd guess 25K minimum which is "low" enough where the vast majority can realistically be owned by collectors.

To me, it's coins like common date capped bust halves which are more of a mystery.  Coin Facts to my recollection tops out at 8,000 or 10,000 whereas I think a more realistic number is at least 50,000 which is still only about 1%.  It's probably higher.

Edited April 27 by World Colonial

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/26/2024 at 8:20 PM, World Colonial said:

As I wrote in my earlier post, if the collector base is actually as large as some of the numbers stated here, we'd be running into them regularly. 

We'd see more of them posting online, too. 

[World Colonial]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:52 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

We'd see more of them posting online, too. 

I don't see much correlation. 

It took me until 2006 to join this forum after "lurking" for a bit.  (I only joined PCGS about five years ago.)  The only reason I knew of it was because I submitted for the first time in October 2005 and that's only because I finally accumulated a decent sized stash that I thought needed to be graded. It's still the largest and most valuable submission I've ever made.

I assume these message boards are more widely known now, somewhat.  You need to remember only a tiny fraction of the collector base ever submits a coin for grading or participates in registry sets.

I'm not sure of the percentage that buys coins in a TPG holder but I'm confident it's quite low too.  The vast majority likely do not collect at a financial level where their budget accommodates it.

[zadok]

On 4/26/2024 at 8:20 PM, World Colonial said:

As I wrote in my earlier post, if the collector base is actually as large as some of the numbers stated here, we'd be running into them regularly.  This is particularly true since the participation rate among most demographic groups is so much lower than the primary one. approaching zero often and they represent a noticeable proportion of the US population.  If five or 10 million "active" collectors, then that's potentially between one in 10 to 20 Caucasian males.  That's far too high.

Who owns these coins and how many are there?  I have no idea.  I admit it.

Concurrently, it's been my assumption that "investment" type US coinage (the more common Morgan and Peace dollars and pre-1933 US gold) is predominantly bought for financial reasons.  There is too much of it and it's too expensive for it to owned by hobbyist collectors in more than low proportion.

For the 1916-D dime, my recollection is PCGS Coin Facts estimates 10,000.  Even accounting for duplicates, seems far too low.  I'd guess 25K minimum which is "low" enough where the vast majority can realistically be owned by collectors.

To me, it's coins like common date capped bust halves which are more of a mystery.  Coin Facts to my recollection tops out at 8,000 or 10,000 whereas I think a more realistic number is at least 50,000 which is still only about 1%.  It's probably higher.

...perhaps ur choice of "active" is a determinate?...just as a point for consideration, i observe n actively participate in local, regional n occasionally national estate sales n auctions n in the 90 percentile they almost always have coin collections, accumulations or groupings of coins, ditto for unclaimed safe deposit box auctions...once a collector always a collector even after death....

[World Colonial]

On 4/27/2024 at 11:05 PM, zadok said:

...perhaps ur choice of "active" is a determinate?...just as a point for consideration, i observe n actively participate in local, regional n occasionally national estate sales n auctions n in the 90 percentile they almost always have coin collections, accumulations or groupings of coins, ditto for unclaimed safe deposit box auctions...once a collector always a collector even after death....

Maybe.

Back in 1998, my former boss told me he had a collection of post-1968 proof sets.  I didn't ask him if he had anything else.  All I remember is that he was disgusted when I informed him that he had been wasting his money on a SDB for decades.  He certainly wasn't "active", whether anyone wants to call him a collector or not.  Not sure how typical this example is of what you see.  I'm aware that given the supply of so many common coins, someone has to own it.

Usually when someone asks this question, it's in the context of future prices presumably including their own collection.  If there really are 10MM US collectors or any number approaching it, the vast majority (probably in the vicinity of at least 70%) have no relevance on future demand, certainly not on the US coinage owned by most US collectors. 

Longer term, I expect demand for practically all post-1933 US coinage to decline noticeably first and then collapse.  Only somewhat better for earlier dates.

[samclemen3991]

It would be interesting to live long enough to see how this is suppose to eventually work out.  In one thread you have millions of raw rare coins that are just waiting to flood the certified market.  In another you have the total collapse of coin collecting because no one wants them.  Somethings got to give.  James

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:44 AM, World Colonial said:

Back in 1998, my former boss told me he had a collection of post-1968 proof sets.  I didn't ask him if he had anything else.  All I remember is that he was disgusted when I informed him that he had been wasting his money on a SDB for decades.  He certainly wasn't "active", whether anyone wants to call him a collector or not.  Not sure how typical this example is of what you see.  I'm aware that given the supply of so many common coins, someone has to own it.

I think people like your boss were told the story of rising gold and silver prices....ditto some numismatics....thought that if they bought some of the Proof or Mint sets and just put them away for 20-30 years they'd go up in price. 

Not so. 

[zadok]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:44 AM, World Colonial said:

Maybe.

Back in 1998, my former boss told me he had a collection of post-1968 proof sets.  I didn't ask him if he had anything else.  All I remember is that he was disgusted when I informed him that he had been wasting his money on a SDB for decades.  He certainly wasn't "active", whether anyone wants to call him a collector or not.  Not sure how typical this example is of what you see.  I'm aware that given the supply of so many common coins, someone has to own it.

Usually when someone asks this question, it's in the context of future prices presumably including their own collection.  If there really are 10MM US collectors or any number approaching it, the vast majority (probably in the vicinity of at least 70%) have no relevance on future demand, certainly not on the US coinage owned by most US collectors. 

Longer term, I expect demand for practically all post-1933 US coinage to decline noticeably first and then collapse.  Only somewhat better for earlier dates.

...a few years back the US govt did a survey of various topics including coin collecting, their summary estimated over 10 million, im not certain of the year but post 2000....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/28/2024 at 6:33 PM, zadok said:

...a few years back the US govt did a survey of various topics including coin collecting, their summary estimated over 10 million, im not certain of the year but post 2000....

But depends on how you DEFINE it.  If they asked some basic questions which fleshed out ACTIVITY and FREQUENCY of buying/selling and/or reading....that's one thing.

You ask "Are you a coin collector ?" and anybody with the Special Quarter collection or a few stray coins is gonna say YES and the total will be 35 million Americans. 

Edited Sunday at 10:56 PM by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:15 AM, samclemen3991 said:

It would be interesting to live long enough to see how this is suppose to eventually work out.  In one thread you have millions of raw rare coins that are just waiting to flood the certified market.  In another you have the total collapse of coin collecting because no one wants them.  Somethings got to give.  James

There are certainly millions of high-grade post-1933 US coins that could be graded.  It's never going to happen because it's economically self-defeating.  Much of this coinage isn't worth the cost of grading now.

If you are referring to US coinage dated prior to 1934, I didn't even hint at millions, but it is my inference that the TPG data isn't reflective of the scarcity much or most of the time.  Why would anyone think that?  There isn't any default reason to believe it for a number of reasons, starting with confirmed small to medium sized hoards of usually much harder to find non-US coinage.

As for the US coin market "collapsing", I'm not expecting it in my lifetime except possibly due to economics.

Longer term, anyone who has read up on US demographic trends will understand my conclusion.  The primary US collector demographic (non-Hispanic Caucasian men) isn't growing or if it is, barely.  It's more likely to shrink.  The demographic groups accounting for all (projected) population growth have a (very) low to non-existent interest in coin collecting (except maybe as "investment") and they certainly have no cultural connection to US coinage.  There is no basis to believe they will later either where they will even come close to collecting US coinage in anywhere near the same proportion.

One other factor which I have never mentioned before is recent "woke" culture.  It's limited to my knowledge and may turn out to be temporary.  US collectors better hope so, because it's potentially disastrous to the economics of collecting US coinage and possibly much of coin collecting generally, including what I primarily collect now.

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:44 AM, World Colonial said:

Longer term, I expect demand for practically all post-1933 US coinage to decline noticeably first and then collapse.  Only somewhat better for earlier dates.

Samuel Taylor Coleridge alluded to you, by extension, in his great epic poem, "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner," (text of 1834)...

"I pass like night, from land to land;

I have strange power of speech;

That moment that his face I see,

I know the man that must hear me:

To him my tale I teach."

***

It is truly a shame only two members will be around to say, "Hey, remember @World Colonial ? Turns out he was right!... I coulda been a contenduh! (1954).... I wonder how he knew!... I wonder how he knew!....  🤣

[World Colonial]

On 4/28/2024 at 6:56 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

But depends on how you DEFINE it.  If they asked some basic questions which fleshed out ACTIVITY and FREQUENCY of buying/selling and/or reading....that's one thing.

You ask "Are you a coin collector ?" and anybody with the Special Quarter collection or a few stray coins is gonna say YES and the total will be 35 million Americans. 

Does the actual number even matter?

I don't think so.  The primary if not only reason this question comes up on coin forums is because of the implications on the future price level.  Whether it's 10MM or somewhere near my prior guesstimate of 2MM isn't likely to impact the future price level materially because the vast majority of collectors (however defined) aren't candidates to buy most of the (somewhat) more expensive (US) coins collectors currently own.

The primary exception to my statement is mostly the coinage you collect: common pre-1933 US gold, Morgan and Peace dollars, and gold and silver NCLT.

[RWB]

This might help in the discussion ---or maybe not.

 The US Mint’s definition as mentioned during their annual meetings with resellers and at other times includes anyone that has put aside (“collected”) coins from circulation, or bought any coin-like product direct from the Mint or from any Mint reseller, or from any TV, internet or envelope stuffer promotion, or from newspaper ads. That is: if one saved a state quarter, you were/are a “coin collector.” The result, as we can all tell is a nonsense number – not even an estimate at the old Polo Grounds in NYC.

 A. From about 1855 to 1960 the most basic collectors were those who put aside pocket change, or kept new coins exchanged at friendly banks or merchants. (Until about 1896, people had to have the correct kind of paper currency or coin to exchange. One could not save $20 in silver coins, then take it to a bank and exchange for a double eagle.)

 B. In the 1858-1916 period a meaningful next point might be with the quantity of minor coin proof sets sold per year. Also included were those who wrote to individual mints to purchase new coins at face value. These were purchased by people willing to devote time and extra money toward acquiring special coins. These buyers also recognized that the premium they paid was likely not recoverable in their lifetime. These were coin collectors in the second (or “invested”) level.

 C. The next level – the third – are those buying from coin resellers, auctioneers, or dealers. Here, the investment of time and money were greater than direct US Mint customers, and the variety of coins available (along with associated claims of rarity) was much more intense.

 A side-level from about 1935 to the present depends on precious metal pseudo-coins originally used for emergency hoarding of sovereign-size items. These now extend to anything from Indian jewelers’ counterfeits of small denomination coins for hoarding gold on a small budget, to kilogram and larger imitations, or cute designs intended to attract attention to otherwise identical lumps.

 To reach a realistic estimate of the total number of collectors for any time period, we can add B  and C, then multiply 10-times to get A; then add A+B+C. (A, B, and C all have internal complexities and cross-purchases, so none are ideal estimates.)

 When we run out of B-level product in 1917 we don’t necessarily lose the collector – they likely split between A and C. About this time we also see a rise in merchant-driven popular advertising, especially “treasure in your change” approaches which seems to have created more A collectors. (We’ve seen something similar when comparing ASE and AGE bullion demand before and after Congress’ prohibition on US Mint coin advertising.)

Edited Monday at 12:06 AM by RWB

[RWB]

As World Colonial noted, it all comes down to price and availability --- money. Just money, money, money. (ah, yes, "Cabaret.") Haven't seen a word about pleasure, knowledge, learning, exchanging info., etc.

[zadok]

On 4/28/2024 at 6:56 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

But depends on how you DEFINE it.  If they asked some basic questions which fleshed out ACTIVITY and FREQUENCY of buying/selling and/or reading....that's one thing.

You ask "Are you a coin collector ?" and anybody with the Special Quarter collection or a few stray coins is gonna say YES and the total will be 35 million Americans. 

...i agree, i personally believe that in the US there r most likely 33-35 million persons that would answer that they "collect" coins...i also personally believe that there r 10 million or more persons that do collect coins to some degree, in other words they have thoughts about their coins n do make some attempts to add to their "collections"...its a matter of degrees...i could ask u to define the various degrees of collectors by ur standards n then ask u to define urself by ur definitions...where do u place urself based on scope of ur collecting, amount of funds expended, frequency of purchases on n on...one of those unanswerable questions....

[zadok]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:06 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Samuel Taylor Coleridge alluded to you, by extension, in his great epic poem, "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner," (text of 1834)...

"I pass like night, from land to land;

I have strange power of speech;

That moment that his face I see,

I know the man that must hear me:

To him my tale I teach."

***

It is truly a shame only two members will be around to say, "Hey, remember @World Colonial ? Turns out he was right!... I coulda been a contenduh! (1954).... I wonder how he knew!... I wonder how he knew!....  🤣

...at least he will have 2 members, some here wont have any....

[samclemen3991]

Sorry World Colonial but you come off about as cheerful as a Thomas Hardy novel.  Are the skies a perpetual  November gray in your world?

I have to dispute some of your conclusions.  You put the survival of coin collecting on the backs of old white men.  I don't think that is true.  I live in a small midwestern town.  In January I was surprised to see an ad in the local grocery store flyer for a new coin club.  The contact person's name is Jose Guerrero and yes he is Spanish.  They have 14 founding members.  2 white college kids, 2 females and the rest are of various non white backgrounds but all know each other thru working at the same Turkey processing plant.  This may not be the future YOU see for coin collecting, and for all I know this group might be as rare as a sun beam in your world but I wouldn't write the future off.  Also, I have yet to get two people give the same definition of woke but that is a different matter.  James

 

 

[zadok]

On 4/29/2024 at 11:05 AM, samclemen3991 said:

Sorry World Colonial but you come off about as cheerful as a Thomas Hardy novel.  Are the skies a perpetual  November gray in your world?

I have to dispute some of your conclusions.  You put the survival of coin collecting on the backs of old white men.  I don't think that is true.  I live in a small midwestern town.  In January I was surprised to see an ad in the local grocery store flyer for a new coin club.  The contact person's name is Jose Guerrero and yes he is Spanish.  They have 14 founding members.  2 white college kids, 2 females and the rest are of various non white backgrounds but all know each other thru working at the same Turkey processing plant.  This may not be the future YOU see for coin collecting, and for all I know this group might be as rare as a sun beam in your world but I wouldn't write the future off.  Also, I have yet to get two people give the same definition of woke but that is a different matter.  James

 

 

...just one question...is there already another coin club in ur community?....