I am buying this coin convince me not too. I am high bidder and will bid up to $1200.00 My current winning bid is less than half of $1200.00 36hrs till hard close. My assigned grade is private but it's pretty high grade. Mistake? Steal? Break even? lol 1 1

[powermad5000]

If it is not too late, Mike, you can look into the rules for retracting your bid. In some cases, you can retract your bid if it is made in error.

[Jason Abshier]

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder … wish you well hope you win it , I’m not familiar with this seller but this seller has 100% feedback after selling 27,000+ coins or whatever on that eBay account they have a return policy which is good deal not too many sellers willing to go that length with return policy … normally coins in that caliber wind up in TPG holders why it’s not in holder ? I don’t know why … then again some people still love Raw Coins… be prepared 27 bidders on that coin you’re gonna get into a bidding war up to last minutes of that auction  try to contain yourself set MAX price and stick with that price even if you’re gonna lost it … just way bidding is I don’t have enough fingers and toes on body to count how many times I’ve lost bids on nice nice coins for my collection I’m sure a lot of other members can relate to that as well …. It’s heartbreaking ! 

Edited March 31 by Jason Abshier

[zadok]

On 3/31/2024 at 1:57 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Well, this is something where the professional organizations should get off their butts and create something to give buyers confidence that someone is legit.  I guess if there is a very easy/liberal return policy that isn't bad but a seal of approval from an overseer would eliminate unhappy purchases.  Word spreads, especially in on the Internet, Social Media, forum message boards, etc.  If a dealer didn't have the necessary certification it would speak volumes.

Kind of surprised there isn't.  I see it in other fields -- I have money management certifications (CFA, CFP) for instance -- jewelers have their Gemological 

...those "rules, codes" u reference only apply to the organizations that issue them n then only to their members, PNG members ascribe to certain ethical premises but only for their members...there is n never will be a mandatory requirement for all or every coin "dealer" to join any certified coin organization...would u really want such n organization in the first place?...as u mentioned "word spreads" so rule of thumb stay informed, better yet learn how to grade coins n if possible buy in person....

[Mike Meenderink]

On 3/30/2024 at 8:56 PM, Coinbuf said:

Bottom line Mike if you have gotten every raw coin you bought from this seller to straight grade at the advertised grade you are either not being honest with us about your results or have been incredibly lucky.

 

Denver Coin Co $45.00 Graded MS 63 GV $95.00

[Mike Meenderink]

Denver Coin Co $34.00 Graded MS 64 GV $60.00

Edited April 1 by Mike Meenderink
ADD

[Mike Meenderink]

Lucky? I guess. But not really.

[Mike Meenderink]

Denver Coin Co $28.00 Graded XF Details Scratched GV XF 40 minus (Appx $65.00)

Edited March 31 by Mike Meenderink

[Henri Charriere]

The only provision eBay provides basically says the iitem I was sent was not as described. With or without this, I would still be hesitant about sending any seller that kind of money.  A member upthread brought up a good point: why wasn't the coin certified?  And doubly-so for dealers who enjoy bulk submissions rates. A certification provides a yardstick.  Without it, the coin collector is wholly dependent on flowery words and trick photography exacerbated by a ticking clock.

Edited March 31 by Henri Charriere
Delete two words.

[Jason Abshier]

To bring up another point , these days I rarely very rarely buy Raw coins online anymore no matter how great they look …. Pictures we see online and when we get the coin in hand looks a lot different than what we expected …. When ever I do buy raw coins it usually from coin show where I’m in person …. Maybe some has had better luck than me , but most of the “good” coins already been graded in holders of you’re willing to save up a little more $$$ and buy it already graded 

 

sometimes the bidding wars on eBay for raw coins even nice Morgan dollars boggles my mind people are paying a lot more money (sometimes) over limit what a graded Morgan or nice coin is already going for !!!! To get a coin that will probably grade MS63  Plus fees to have it graded ??  

Edited March 31 by Jason Abshier

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/31/2024 at 3:45 AM, powermad5000 said:

If it is not too late, Mike, you can look into the rules for retracting your bid. In some cases, you can retract your bid if it is made in error.

What's their return policy ?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/31/2024 at 3:44 AM, powermad5000 said:

NGC, PCGS, ANACS and now CACG provide the confidence that the coins are legit, but as for individual sellers, it is sort of impossible, especially for sellers who might only sell a couple or few coins a year. On eBay, there is feedback, but that can only go so far. The feedback is useful for sellers who consistently provide less than desired quality (such as receiving a coin not shown in the photos you bought from), or from sellers who don't even ship the coin, but for sellers like the one in question, I can only imagine not all the buyers from that seller actually submit their coins so for those who buy the coins off of those juiced up photos, they may only end up keeping them raw and not have the knowledge to check them for defects. Therefore, that seller can get positive feedback but there is actually a disconnect between the feedback and reality of the purchase.

Mike was looking at a certified coin, right ?  The only dispute was whether or not the lighting was making it look much nicer ?

[powermad5000]

On 3/31/2024 at 9:48 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Mike was looking at a certified coin, right ?

No. Mike is looking at buying a raw coin.

[Mike Meenderink]

I'm going to take the chance and if it does not look as I expect when received I will return it. I am confident I will be able to accurately grade this coin when in hand. I have 30 day NQA return window. That gives me plenty of time to study, grade and then take to my local ANA dealer and have a second opinion. High bid now $670.000 I'm outbid. I will hit it one last time right before close. Here we go.

Edited March 31 by Mike Meenderink

[Mike Meenderink]

Well, the auction has ended. I fought hard with 4 bids all over $500 with my final shot (with Coinbufs advice to be careful) around $850. Well, the coin sold for $1575.00 well above my starting target high bid of $1200. I will be looking at some more high dollar coins for sale soon. I have sold a few family pieces, and I am now with my dad re investing in different series coins. This was a missed opportunity. I know some do not agree. The coin in my opinion was worth well over 3k. Someone got a great coin, and they know it. Thanks to all that followed this thread. I will be buying again, and I will document the process from raw purchase to graded in hand. Cheers guys!

Edited April 1 by Mike Meenderink

[Henri Charriere]

So, you feel this was a missed opportunity, huh? Not me.  Having successfully deluded myself in truly believing I never bid that much at auction, I believe the angels were on your side. Clinically, you did not see any more of the coin than I did. Another member gave you a background check on the seller. What I saw that disturbed me was the inexplicable color contrast which I assume we were all supposed to disregard. The overriding question which was never answered -- had I spotted the item on eBay, with nothing to lose, I would have dared to ask it, was:  "If submission were cost-effective, why haven't you certified it?"  Put another way, How could certification hurt?  After all, considering the entire universe of realistic bids that could have been placed, are not they all recoverable?  Mike, I believe you dodged a bullet; in the face of unrelenting pressure you performed well and exercised great discipline. 

[VKurtB]

On 3/31/2024 at 12:57 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Well, this is something where the professional organizations should get off their butts and create something to give buyers confidence that someone is legit.  I guess if there is a very easy/liberal return policy that isn't bad but a seal of approval from an overseer would eliminate unhappy purchases.  Word spreads, especially in on the Internet, Social Media, forum message boards, etc.  If a dealer didn't have the necessary certification it would speak volumes.

Kind of surprised there isn't.  I see it in other fields -- I have money management certifications (CFA, CFP) for instance -- jewelers have their Gemological stuff, etc.

There is not such a group because the vaaaaaaast majority of dealers don’t want one. There are more scammers than honest people in this biz. It’s why I NEVER EVER EVER buy online anymore, other than from mints or “bullion priced” items. I have rejected FOMO for life. Worse is FoBS - fear of being umm, wrapped helically around an axis. 

Edited April 1 by VKurtB

[Coinbuf]

On 3/31/2024 at 6:52 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

Denver Coin Co $34.00 Graded MS 64 GV $70.00

While the original point of this thread is moot, I'm just trying to understand your shorthand.   Am I reading this correctly that you paid $34 for the coin raw?   And what is GV?   the NGC coin explorer shows the price guide at $60.

[Mike Meenderink]

 

On 4/1/2024 at 3:53 PM, Coinbuf said:

While the original point of this thread is moot, I'm just trying to understand your shorthand.   Am I reading this correctly that you paid $34 for the coin raw?   And what is GV?   the NGC coin explorer shows the price guide at $60.

$34.00 raw w tax NGC Guide Value $60.00 sorry typo.

[VKurtB]

This seller so fantastically pumps up the contrast on all his coins photos that what you see in his listings simply does not exist. The curves of the photos are horribly screwed with. “Juicing”, “juiced”, and similar words are MEANINGLESS. I've read them far too often. Use correct terminology. Or is it “an Internet thing”? Show me where juiced is defined this way. 

Edited April 2 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/1/2024 at 9:36 PM, VKurtB said:

This seller so fantastically pumps up the contrast on all his coins photos that what you see in his listings simply does not exist. The curves of the photos are horribly screwed with. “Juicing”, “juiced”, and similar words are MEANINGLESS. I've read them far too often. Use correct terminology. Or is it “an Internet thing”? Show me where juiced is defined this way. 

Return policy ?

I've seen photos of a coin with the lighting angles changed...night and day....from outstanding eye appeal and luster to horrid.

[VKurtB]

On 4/2/2024 at 2:22 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Return policy ?

I've seen photos of a coin with the lighting angles changed...night and day....from outstanding eye appeal and luster to horrid.

What this bird is doing goes WAAAAY beyond lighting angles. He is turning the contrast way up in Photoshop before posting the pictures. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 4/2/2024 at 12:27 PM, VKurtB said:

What this bird is doing goes WAAAAY beyond lighting angles. He is turning the contrast way up in Photoshop before posting the pictures. 

If the coin is not what I expect it gets returned. I've had a few coins that I've returned in the past years from online sellers (including slabbed coins with badly scratched holders) but most I have been satisfied with and many I have been very pleased with. I do not buy from any seller that does not accept returns or any seller with less than 98% positive feedback.

[Coinbuf]

On 3/31/2024 at 4:07 AM, Jason Abshier said:

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder … wish you well hope you win it , I’m not familiar with this seller but this seller has 100% feedback after selling 27,000+ coins or whatever on that eBay account they have a return policy which is good deal not too many sellers willing to go that length with return policy

 

On 4/2/2024 at 12:22 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Return policy ?

This is part of how a convincing scam artist runs a good scam, you have to convince the mark that you are legit.   How better to look legit than to offer a generous return policy and work with ebay to remove any neutral or negative feedback so you keep your feedback score looking pristine.   The reason this seller offers such an outstanding return policy is because they know some of the coins they sell are going to be returned, this helps them to avoid or have ebay remove any negative feedback.

All I can say is that I've provided plenty of warning on this seller, anyone that buys from them deserves what they get.

Edited to add: @Jason Abshier looking at an ebay sellers feedback score is useless if you don't do some digging.   Here is a screenshot of Denver Coins Co feedback, take note of the 4 neutral ratings in the past 6 months, if those were not removed for the seller by ebay the score would be less than 100%.   Then take a close look at the bottom right of this screenshot, see the verbiage that says revised feedback and that number is 74.   That means that 74 buyers left something other than a positive feedback rating which they changed, why it was changed we do not know.

Edited April 3 by Coinbuf

[RWB]

Now think....why would such a "nice" coin not be in a legitimate TPG holder with a cute smiley-face sticker?

The contrast has been exaggerated so the fields look black and relief almost white - not normal for a coin of that era, except for a few carefully maintained pieces.

[Just Bob]

On 4/1/2024 at 9:36 PM, VKurtB said:

This seller so fantastically pumps up the contrast on all his coins photos that what you see in his listings simply does not exist. The curves of the photos are horribly screwed with. “Juicing”, “juiced”, and similar words are MEANINGLESS. I've read them far too often. Use correct terminology. Or is it “an Internet thing”? Show me where juiced is defined this way. 

 

On 4/2/2024 at 3:27 PM, VKurtB said:

What this bird is doing goes WAAAAY beyond lighting angles. He is turning the contrast way up in Photoshop before posting the pictures. 

Cranking up the contrast and exaggerating the color are precisely what is meant by the term “juiced.” It may not be the correct terminology, but it is popular internet terminology, especially when referring to enhanced pictures of coins.

[VKurtB]

On 4/2/2024 at 10:21 PM, Just Bob said:

It may not be the correct terminology, but it is popular internet terminology

Hence the reason it needs to be humanely put down.

[brg5658]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:14 PM, VKurtB said:

Hence the reason it needs to be humanely put down.

Silly and pedantic opinion.

Language is about agreed upon meaning between communicators.  No one in the niche coin area is confused by the term "juiced" with regard to coin photos (except apparently you).

[Henri Charriere]

[You are overlooking the fact, despite your many years here, that some members look forward to hearing what this gentleman has to say whether it be good, bad or indifferent.  He is a contender.  Matter of fact, I believe he superseded my standing on the Leader board recently!  He is a force to be reckoned with.]