VasquezJ Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Is anyone have any information or know about 1927 Buffalo Nickel Special Strike? Only information I found was through the website showing only 3 of those coins known to exist but it shows 4 being graded. So does that mean only what’s been graded are only coins that exist or would there be possible more but not yet discovered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just noticed this now that you have had no reply. According to PCGS, there were 5 minted and 4 graded by them. RonnieR131 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 If you were to see photos, you think you’d be able to identify if if they are? Just asking because actually I came across a few buffalo nickels like 11 or 12 coins and from what I’m matching and matching details, I believe about 7 of them are Proof Buffalo Nickels and one of them being a Special Strike. Coinbuf and Henri Charriere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Abshier Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 @VasquezJ heritage auction has sold one that I found the link is here it gives a description of the coin apparently there’s no documentation that back these up … perhaps mint never documented them ? @RWB does a lot research on mints and documentations he might would know about them or why they are “special strike” https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-buffalo-nickels/1927-special-strike-5c-sp65-pcgs/a/1124-2168.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Henri Charriere, Coinbuf and Sandon 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Ok so the first 2 coins circled I believe to be 1936 Brilliant and Satin Buffalos, 2nd circled 1937 Buffalo also Proof and 3rd circled, 1927 Special Strike and other is a 1928 S Buffalo. That’s just what I believe they are but what do you think? Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 The 1927 Buffalo is the coin that really stood out because on reverse the Buffalo also seems to be out of the coin. Didn’t get photos of the reverse of coins but il get them later so you can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 I really see those coins being proof coins but unless I’m wrong, well let me know. On photos coins look as if maybe there a bit rough but actually there almost in perfect shape just really dirty with years just sitting around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Abshier Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 @VasquezJ nope they are average circulated Buffalo nickels in the picture you provided for us to view nothing special about them RonnieR131 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Ok so just a question, what’s your way to identify a Proof vz a Regular Buffalo Nickel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 3/25/2024 at 6:55 PM, Jason Abshier said: @VasquezJ nope they are average circulated Buffalo nickels in the picture you provided for us to view nothing special about them What we really need here is a few good close-ups, front and back. I approach any claim with an open mind, but I need something to sink my teeth into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Because from information I found was that only Proof Buffalo coins have sharp square edges including coin rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Not around the coins but let me check if I can have someone send me photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) On 3/25/2024 at 6:45 PM, VasquezJ said: Ok so the first 2 coins circled I believe to be 1936 Brilliant and Satin Buffalos, 2nd circled 1937 Buffalo also Proof and 3rd circled, 1927 Special Strike and other is a 1928 S Buffalo. That’s just what I believe they are but what do you think? RE: 1927 Experimental nickels. See pages 35-36 in United States Proof Coins 1936 – 1942 by Roger W Burdette. Here is the opening paragraph of the section ---- “Chromium Plating of Working Dies. Mint Engravers and Coiners were constantly looking for ways to increase die life and reduce maintenance time. Throughout the mint’s existence, the primary emphasis has been on improving the quality and hardness of die steel, and reducing the amount of pressure necessary to strike good coins. The steel used for coinage dies during the 1930s was approximately 0.97 percent carbon, 0.21 percent silicon, 0.18 percent manganese, 0.019 percent sulfur, 0.016 percent phosphorus and 98.605 percent iron. This is similar to general purpose machine tool and die steel used in other industrial applications although the absence of nickel is curious. Changes in die hardening, especially the use of better furnaces and improved temperature control, resulted in better dies. But ideas for further improvement came from an unexpected source.” As for the illustrated coins, nothing in the photos indicate anything unusual or special; common date, circulated nickels. Edited March 25 by RWB RonnieR131 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 3/25/2024 at 3:45 PM, VasquezJ said: Ok so the first 2 coins circled I believe to be 1936 Brilliant and Satin Buffalos, 2nd circled 1937 Buffalo also Proof and 3rd circled, 1927 Special Strike and other is a 1928 S Buffalo. That’s just what I believe they are but what do you think? I think you have no clue what you are doing and are a constant source of laughter. So how did that submission you did turn out anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 3/25/2024 at 7:29 PM, RWB said: .... But ideas for further improvement came from an unexpected source.”... Opening paragraph, notwithstanding, you can't leave everybody hanging... What was the "unexpected source"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 As far as submission, I’m still waiting. I won’t leave anyone hanging. What ever the results are il let it be known for sure. RonnieR131 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 The coins whose obverse photos you have posted, including those you have circled, are of ordinary, circulation strike (and circulated, some well-worn) Buffalo nickels, of which tens of millions were made in each of the pertinent years at the Philadelphia mint alone, or in the case of the 1936, nearly 119 million at the Philadelphia mint alone. Both of the 1936s you circled have rims that have been flattened by wear; they are not "square edges", which means that the rim is nearly perpendicular to the edge instead of being slightly beveled as is the tendency on circulation strikes. You have to view the coins from the edge to check for this characteristic. They are not proofs or "Special Strikes", and none is worth more than a few dollars. (We can't tell at what mints the coins were made without seeing the reverse, where the mintmarks are located beneath "FIVE CENTS".) It is difficult to explain how proofs differ in appearance from regular coins without your being able to see the actual coins in person, but I will try to using photos. A brilliant proof Buffalo nickel of 1936-37 looks like this 1937 in my collection, NGC graded PF 66, with the characteristics of an extremely sharp strike and a mirror finish: Photos courtesy of Stacks Bowers Galleries. For high resolution images of 1936 "Satin Finish" proofs, which are similar in quality but have a duller finish, see https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1936-5c-satin/3994 (photos and comments). The extremely rare and controversial 1927 "Special Strike" coins are similar in appearance to the 1936 Satin Finish proofs. See https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1927-5c-special-strike/3987, 1927 5C SP | Coin Explorer | NGC (ngccoin.com) The finish would not be observable on a coin as worn as the 1927 in your photo, and even if by some miracle your 1927 had originated as one of these purported experimental strikes (as opposed to one of the 37,981,000 regular coins struck for circulation), there would probably be no way to tell. In comparison, here are photos of an ordinary circulation strike but nice uncirculated (PCGS graded MS 65) 1936, with bright frosty mint luster and a full strike but some die wear: The provenance of such coins is also important. The mint sold the proofs of 1936 (4,420 of both types versus 118,997,000 circulation strikes) and 1937 (5,769, all brilliant, versus 79,480,000 circulation strikes) directly to collectors, and the vast majority have been carefully preserved and passed down within the families of the original owners or have been traded among collectors and dealers, always identified as proofs. Most have likely been certified by grading services and are sold through coin dealers and auction houses. They rarely just "turn up" unattributed. While some have been "cleaned" or mishandled, very few have any wear. Any proof that was "spent" and had as much wear as most of the coins in your photos would likely no longer be identifiable as a proof, even by an expert. Collectors and dealers saved many uncirculated rolls and bags of these coins, especially of the later dates, so the odds are that even any coin without circulation wear without clear proof characteristics is a circulation strike, not a proof. You must stop laboring under the conception that you can easily or regularly find rare, valuable coins without paying market prices for them. Respectfully, you appear to lack basic information about coins or understand what the rare pieces you have purported to find are supposed to look like. In one of your previous topics ("1988-D Lincoln Wheat [sic] Cent"), I directed you to some forum topics that identify print and online resources that will help you in gaining an understanding of what can be a rewarding pastime. Please refer to them. (Do you even have a "Redbook" and a grading guide? Have you ever been to a coin show?) RonnieR131 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Abshier Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 3/25/2024 at 9:03 PM, VasquezJ said: As far as submission, I’m still waiting You submitted these coins 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 Ok about the Lincoln Wheat Cent, I didn’t type that in, I only typed Wheat but my phone automatically included somehow but I didn’t even notice that happened till afterwards and was trying to remove it but the system wouldn’t let me for whatever reason, it’s not like I’m clueless about coins and thought that it was that. Anyways, well il get photos of all angles so you can better view the coins. RonnieR131 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 And I pretty much know the difference between Proof Buffalos and Regular but my question is that if the gloss of the coin is worn off due to how it was kept, does it stop being a proof coin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 3/25/2024 at 9:52 PM, VasquezJ said: my question is that if the gloss of the coin is worn off due to how it was kept, does it stop being a proof coin? Technically, proof is a method of manufacture and not a grade, so a well-worn coin that could be proven to have been manufactured as a proof would still theoretically be a "proof", but in this case there would be no way to identify it as such. NGC has never certified a proof Buffalo nickel below the grade of "58" nor PCGS below the grade of "55". See Buffalo Five Cents (1913-1938) | Coin Census Population Report | NGC (ngccoin.com) and https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/buffalo-nickel-1913-1938/83/0?t=5&pn=1. The 55-58 grades are close to unworn, so the original surfaces would be largely present. A "squared off rim", assuming that it could be determined to exist on a well-worn coin, would not be conclusive, as circulation strike coins may also have square rims. RonnieR131 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 Yes I understand that, but like you said an in person inspection would by best option but il for sure post up more photos so you can view them and have a better understanding of what I’m talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 3/25/2024 at 6:23 PM, Jason Abshier said: You submitted these coins 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Not these Buffalos, but something just as ridiculous, check it out Here Jason Abshier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 (edited) Coinbuf or whatever your name is? How bout we place a legal bet on the 1927 Buffalo Nickel being a Special Strike? Il get and contract and meet you where ever your located and we both sign? Edited March 26 by VasquezJ Henri Charriere and Coinbuf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 Or even better, what coin show you wanna meet at and I can have the coin experts tell both of us if it’s a Special Strike or not and we’ll find out right there and then. Henri Charriere and Coinbuf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 Received one photo only and not around coin to get any more photos till tomorrow afternoon but anyways there a view of the rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 There’s no regular circulated Buffalo with a square sharp rim like that only Proof Buffalos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VasquezJ Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 My question was regarding doing submission being that website says only 3 exist but 4 have been graded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
