Retromodo Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Hi Hope your well, Saw this draped bust dollar 1795, not sure if it’s real as the diameter is 39mm and weight is 27g which seems correct to me, but seems too good to be true. Any ideas? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Certainly looks fake to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retromodo Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 How are you able to tell so quickly? Which points/parts should I look at? I need to gain your skills thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 On 2/16/2024 at 5:37 PM, Retromodo said: ... seems too good to be true Hmmm, you know what they say about that with a high 5 to 6 figure coin if authentic where it doesn't match examples on Coin Explorer or CoinFacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Fake. When it seems to good to be true its usually is. What really stands out is the condition and the coloring of the coin. Even if perfect and never circulated it would eventually change color. Its not even close to real based on the devices as well. The weird 2 tone silver of the reverse also says fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Definitely a counterfeit, all you have to do is compare your photo to a genuine one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) If you have actually seen or at least studied good quality photos of genuine coins of this type, you should sense immediately that this coin is a counterfeit. The surfaces are simply too shiny and smooth and the fine details too sharp and modern looking for this to be a genuine coin struck on a hand operated screw press at the Philadelphia mint in or about 1795. Unfortunately, fakes like these have been mass produced in China for about the last twenty years. Pre-1837 U.S. coins were struck from dies that were created from separate punches for the devices (Liberty head, eagle and wreath), numbers, letters and stars. Each die had these elements in at least slightly different positions, and all coins struck from genuine die pairs can be traced to these specific dies, which are referred to as die varieties, and should match in every detail. There are only two known die varieties for 1795 Draped Bust dollars, the BB-51 or B-14 with the bust of Liberty set farther to the left than on your "coin", and the BB-52 or B-15 with the bust more centered. Here are the NGC VarietyPlus photos of a genuine high-grade BB-52: If you compare these photos with the item you posted, you will find many differences, of which I will name only a few. The "dentils" around the rims of the genuine coin are larger and differently shaped than on yours. The hair and other details are different in configuration, and the stars are farther apart. Per Q. David Bowers's Silver Dollars and Trade Dollars of the United States: A Complete Encyclopedia (1993), vol.1 at 224, the break or lump in Liberty's hair appears in all but the earliest die states of the coin but is not present on yours. On the reverse, the olive branch has six berries, not seven as on yours, and they are different in size and shape. The reverse lettering differs markedly in position; for example, the "F" in "OF" does not touch the branch on the genuine coin but does on the counterfeit. The authentication of coins is a complex topic, about which you can read more at NGC Counterfeit Detection | Identify Counterfeit Coins | NGC (ngccoin.com). However, if you are a new collector, you also need to learn basic information about the coins you want to collect. Do you have at least a recent edition "Redbook", grading guide, and access to a current price guide? Edited February 17 by Sandon Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Hello! I hope you didn't pay good money for this since I noticed the Sold banner in the lower corner. What stood out to me right away (first thing) was the hair on Liberty. It looks too simplistic and has a feel of being AI generated. Then, by process I start to look for more things wrong. Next was the denticles. Third was the surface of this coin. It looks too "non-silver" to me. Then for giggles, I took a look at the reverse and nothing seemed right to me on that. Being familiar with what a genuine example looks like is one of the keys to detecting fake coins. It takes looking at photos of genuine examples as well as looking at genuine examples for sale by reputable sellers (i.e. Heritage Auctions, Great Collections, Stacks and Bowers, etc.) The more you become familiar with the genuine coins the easier it becomes to recognize fakes. Just remember, there are some very good fakes out there that fool even some of the most experienced collectors. This coin, however, is not one of them. This one was easy to spot. Sandon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retromodo Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 I was tempted to buy it, glad I didn’t 😁 Thank you everyone for the information and help. Very valuable tips and advice, really appreciate it. will study any future buys with these tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) glad that you changed your mind. In the future if you are looking at buying higher dollar coins, just post a clear photo of both sides of the coin on this forum and some one here should be able to help identifying whether it is genuine or not. Also if genuine, state the asking price to see if it is worth it or not. Edited February 17 by Greenstang Correct spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 2/17/2024 at 9:53 AM, Retromodo said: ... will study any future buys with these tips Since you are unfamiliar with how to authenticate coins I would recommend sticking with coins in slabs from NGC or PCGS like the attached where that has already been done for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 2/17/2024 at 9:53 AM, Retromodo said: I was tempted to buy it, glad I didn’t The nature of the seller and the asking price may also have been clues that the coin was likely fake. High grade U.S. coins of this vintage are usually sold at public auction by major numismatic auction houses or by larger dealers who are likely members of the Professional Numismatists Guild (the PNG, pngdealers.org). A 1795 Draped Bust dollar lists $50,000 or more in MS 60 (the lowest uncirculated grade) and six figures in higher uncirculated grades. Even a lower-end AU wouldn't likely be offered for less than $15,000. Real ones are unlikely to be found on the websites of little-known sellers or for bargain prices. There is an old expression, "There is no Santa Claus in numismatics!" On 2/17/2024 at 9:53 AM, Retromodo said: will study any future buys with these tips. It's not just a matter of getting "tips". It's a matter of broader knowledge and experience. Another old and still valid expression is, "Buy the book before the coin!" Nowadays, some of your research can be done online. You should also attend coin shows, coin club meetings and other venues where you can see a variety of authenticated coins and speak with knowledgeable collectors and dealers. Knowledge and experience are important even if you only buy coins certified by major third-party grading services, as the grading service holders have themselves been counterfeited, and even coins in genuine holders vary in quality and desirability. Please see the following forum topics that identify print and online resources that will enable you to become a knowledgeable collector and make wise purchases: powermad5000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
