Grading Morgan Silver Dollars 1 1

[EagleRJO]

I came across a summary of the ANA grading standards for Morgans on their website (money.org) with high resolution example images of the various grades, and thought I would share the link ... https://www.money.org/morgan-dollar-coin-grading/

[RWB]

To me, the photos do little to differentiate a true AU ("AU-58") from all the UNC versions and thus don't show the details that separate one grade from the other. In this mashup, a "MS62" and a "MS67" hardly differ. The photos are nice illustrations for EF and lower, but hardly usable as grading examples.

Thanks for posting the link.

[Henri Charriere]

When you come right down to it, only 7% of all grades awarded have nothing to do with wear.  The vast majority are a but an exercise to grade -- to a point.  It is that miniscule minority, bearing evidence of PMD in the stratospheric upper end of the Mint Scale range, that poses a true challenge.  As much as I love Morgans dating to my youth, I would need formal instruction in their grading.  But I would say to Morgan collectors the same thing I would tell collectors of any other coin series.  Study the finest examples available and then you will know what to look for along the rest of the continuum.  Put another way -- and I am confining my remarks to Mint State-graded Morgans, in particular, it is difficult to know what one grade ought to look like if you don't have a finer example at hand to refer to.  The more the better. Grading is an art involving a skill set that relies on a series of viewings and cumulative experience. Rare is the whippersnapper who's got all this down pat at a very young age.

[EagleRJO]

On 2/8/2024 at 5:28 PM, RWB said:

To me, the photos do little to differentiate a true AU ("AU-58") from all the UNC versions

The difference between say an AU58 and MS60 or say an MS65 and MS67 is very minor and I don't necessarily think you could capture that with just photographs.

But I think is helpful to have the high-resolution photos to go with the descriptions.  Much better than the example images included with the ANA grading standard.

[RWB]

The difference are critical and can be captured in good photos, but it requires skills the ANA photographer lacked.

[powermad5000]

This is also complicated by the fact that they used different mintmarks in the analysis. The O strikes were known for being more weakly struck than any of the rest of the Mints and the S and CC were known to have better strikes than (P) Morgans. It wasn't really explained how this can affect the grading process.

And then there's always the hair above the ear. In the photos of MS 60 (which is supposed to have no wear) the hair above the ear appears worn and by MS 67 that hair is full. That factor has never been satisfactorily explained to me as all MS coins are supposed to exhibit no wear.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 2/8/2024 at 10:26 PM, powermad5000 said:

This is also complicated by the fact that they used different mintmarks in the analysis. The O strikes were known for being more weakly struck than any of the rest of the Mints and the S and CC were known to have better strikes than (P) Morgans. It wasn't really explained how this can affect the grading process. And then there's always the hair above the ear. In the photos of MS 60 (which is supposed to have no wear) the hair above the ear appears worn and by MS 67 that hair is full. That factor has never been satisfactorily explained to me as all MS coins are supposed to exhibit no wear.

The New Orleans Mint was notorious for "poorly struck" or weak-strike Morgans.  Conversely, San Francisco seems to have had the best almost year-in and year-out.

Then you have the entire "slider" thing whereby a less-bag marked AU coin with some "wear" on the high-points could get Mint State grading. 

Edited February 10 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

Differences in strike detail should have little effect on grading a coin. The key element is the observed change from the coin's original condition to its present state.

[EagleRJO]

On 2/8/2024 at 8:16 PM, RWB said:

The difference are critical and can be captured in good photos, but it requires skills the ANA photographer lacked.

I think the images from the link are miles ahead of the example pictures included in the latest ANA Grading Standards, and fairly similar to the CoinFacts or PhotoGrade examples for particular grades, with the addition of the descriptions which I think is key.

For me it's sometimes difficult to distinguish between two adjacent mint state grades, even with the coins in-hand.  But I am working on it, so maybe one of these days "in a galaxy far,far away" the light bulb will go on.

But if you know of a better source with good photos as indicated that would clearly capture the differences between two adjacent mint state grades perhaps you could share that.

[RWB]

I understand --- to me, they simply do not show what is necessary to distinguish any grade from AU-58 to 69.999991. (They are pleasant illustrations, and usefull for authentic EF and lower.)

[VKurtB]

On 2/9/2024 at 7:49 AM, RWB said:

Differences in strike detail should have little effect on grading a coin. The key element is the observed change from the coin's original condition to its present state.

… says ONE school of thought, the tiny minority one.