Retromodo Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) https://i.postimg.cc/66hs6YLS/D07-D2694-65-C9-4-D10-B89-E-89736-D5783-D7.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/5ygDP221/5-A8-A0-E79-B79-C-4-A68-9-CF4-AF1-ADD06726-F.jpg Hi hope everyone is well, came across this Morgan dollar 1895-o any idea if it’s genuine as not seen this grading company before. (Link for photos are above) thanks in advance Edited February 6 by Retromodo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) That is some kind of knock-off grading company slab or Asian basement-slabber, and with oriental characters on the label I would pass on that coin. Stick with NGC or PCG$ slabbed coins, and you can throw in ANACS for errors or lesser known varieties. Edited February 6 by EagleRJO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Welcome to the NGC chat board. The "coin" in the holder is clearly counterfeit. Among other things, the date and mintmark appear to be too large, and Liberty's face and mouth appear misshapen. Moreover, "blast white" gem uncirculated 1895-O are extremely rare and when they do appear sell for six figures. A genuine 1895-O Morghan dollar graded MS 65 is valued at $225,000 in the NGC Price Guide. See 1895 O $1 MS | Coin Explorer | NGC (ngccoin.com). Such a coin would not appear in such a holder. Unfortunately, buying a coin in what purports to be the holder of a reputable grading service doesn't guarantee that one is buying a genuine coin either. A dealer at a coin show I attended last weekend told me that someone had walked into his shop with what purported to be ten uncirculated 1885-CC Morgan dollars in PCGS holders with labels bearing the MS 65 grade. The coins and the holders were all counterfeits. This is why it is highly important for all collectors to learn basic authentication and grading skills and become familiar with the appearance of genuine examples of coins they want to collect, including those who collect only certified coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 2/6/2024 at 3:07 PM, Sandon said: The "coin" in the holder is clearly counterfeit. I didn't even get past the label before, but looking at the coin now I think you're right. On 2/6/2024 at 3:07 PM, Sandon said: The coins and the holders were all counterfeits In addition to fake TPG holders a shop that is helping me with a want list of Morgans I'm missing indicated they have also come across more fake GSA holders recently. Buyer beware. Retromodo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retromodo Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 Hi thanks for the information, I opened the slab/holder and it weighs 26.55g, (Link to picture below) https://i.postimg.cc/FsNXZCn7/48-BB2-D2-D-E491-41-A7-8561-7695-A56926-FB.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.cutler Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 2/6/2024 at 4:28 PM, Retromodo said: Hi thanks for the information, I opened the slab/holder and it weighs 26.55g, (Link to picture below) https://i.postimg.cc/FsNXZCn7/48-BB2-D2-D-E491-41-A7-8561-7695-A56926-FB.jpg Weight is irrelevant in this case, the Chinese fakes are often the correct weight anymore, this coin is a clear fake. Retromodo and Sandon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Although the coin is slightly below tolerance at 26.55 grams--0.097 gram against the statutory weight of 26.73 grams, resulting in a minimum legal weight of 26.633 grams--a scale is unnecessary to determine the counterfeit status of this coin. I took the liberty of downloading and show below the PCGS photo of what is widely considered to be the finest known 1895-O dollar, the only one graded MS 67 by PCGS, with none graded that high at NGC. This coin was once in the Jack Lee collection and was last sold at auction for $528,000 in November 2020 as part of the Larry Miller collection. If you compare this photo to those of the originally posted piece, you will note many differences in the fine details of the genuine "gem" example to that piece in addition to those I originally noted, as well as obvious differences in the crispness of those details and in the luster of the two pieces. The "look" of the counterfeit is quite different from that of the genuine coin, which despite its high grade shows evidence of coin-to-coin contact on Liberty's cheek, while the counterfeit shows none. As the late Yogi Berra is said to have said, "You can see a lot just by looking". Retromodo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) One look at the size, shape, placement of the date numerals on the OP's coin was already starting to scream fake to me. Upon a little more glancing, the eagles flat breast feathers, and non crisp wing feathers were another giveaway and then I looked at the O and noticed it was tilted and out of position. In addition the denticles are not even, and the shape and position of the letters in STATES on the reverse are all incorrect. I am sure if I keep looking I could find more things wrong with it, but I don't feel it is worth any more extra time or effort. For the OP, being you noted you opened the holder and also weighed the coin says to me that you purchased this coin. I hope you didn't pay a lot for it and I also hope you did not purchase others as well. Edited February 7 by powermad5000 Retromodo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 On 2/6/2024 at 8:43 PM, Sandon said: The "look" of the counterfeit is quite different from that of the genuine coin That's what really jumps out at me. Doesn't look at all like a business strike coin from over a hundred years ago that would be dropped in a bin then a bank bag which would be tossed around. Resembles more of a mushy proof coin that was just struck like it was, without even any noticeable contact marks. On 2/6/2024 at 10:31 PM, powermad5000 said: I looked at the O and noticed it was tilted and out of position Note that many of the Morgans, including this one, have a VAM with a tilted and/or shifted mint mark. Good starting point, along with the date position, for identifying a VAM. On 2/6/2024 at 4:28 PM, Retromodo said: I opened the slab/holder and it weighs 26.55g I would focus more on trying to get your money back if recently purchased. Retromodo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retromodo Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 Thank you everyone for the tips and ways to spot these fakes. Really valuable information, part of the learning curve and excitement of coin collecting. Will need to keep an eagle eye out next time. I got my money back on them, will use them to keep a wobbly table straight! it’s quite mind boggling the lengths counterfeiters go to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/7/2024 at 3:34 AM, Retromodo said: Thank you everyone for the tips and ways to spot these fakes. Really valuable information, part of the learning curve and excitement of coin collecting. Will need to keep an eagle eye out next time. I got my money back on them, will use them to keep a wobbly table straight! it’s quite mind boggling the lengths counterfeiters go to! Anyone Chinese sees anyone American as a sheep waiting to be shorn. Never trust China. Full stop. Teddy R 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
