victor382 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Hi guys! Please help me with the price for this one. Thank you much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 On 1/27/2024 at 2:43 PM, victor382 said: Hi guys! Please help me with the price for this one. Thank you much! First things first, is it a counterfeit? According to NGC this is the 9th most counterfeited coin.! It looks like it has the "die lump" in the right place and the details seem sharp, idk, the obv seems flat and lifeless. I'm leaning towards it not being authentic, just doesn't look quite right to me. Others will jump in soon. Hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 (edited) Thanks! I hope it is not fake, but who knows? I bought it from collector in Japan. Edited January 27 by victor382 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RWB Posted January 28 Popular Post Share Posted January 28 (edited) Did not know that Ford made Crown Victorias in 1847. Where did they find tyres for them....? Also, your reverse image is upside down. Edited January 28 by RWB numisport, CIII and Fenntucky Mike 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 Is it 100% fake in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) On 1/27/2024 at 7:37 PM, victor382 said: Is it 100% fake in your opinion? Cannot tell from the photos. Also need weight, diameter,thickness, etc. There are a few very high quality counterfeits but they are seldom seen. Off-hand nothing jumps out. Here's an authentic 1847 from a Heritage auction. Edited January 28 by RWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 Thanks, man. The size and weight seem to be right. It sounds like the only way to determine the authenticity is to bring it to the pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 JAPAN! And if "the pro" you consult says, "No go," then what? What enquiring minds would want to know is how can you proceed with an overseas buy without knowing exactly what you're buying and its Fair Market Value? Was this purchased from an individual or a reputable firm with stellar reviews? Does he (do they) have a Return policy if not completely satisfied? How did you determine if the price was right? (Prices run higher, much higher in Japan.) Submission for Certification, while a personal choice, entails cost. That is a decision that can await informal authentication and depends on a number of factors. I do hope, with pending feedback, you make out swimmingly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 What would I do if pro said no? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) Note: while I have been unsuccessful in attempting to secure an English translation to "tuaeiur unita deus," I have been provided various translations in French to: "noni soit qui mal y pense," which appears in the dead center of the reverse example member RWB has provided from H.A. auctions (which appears to depart from the posted O.P.s coin.) As the same quote differs with context used, I have taken the liberty of providing at least three which.members may not be familiar with. The various expressions used symbolizes the Order of the Garter, and ancient order of Knigthood of which the Queen is Sovereign: a). "Shame on him who evil thinks." b)."Shamed be (the person) who thinks evil of it." c). "Evil to him who thinks evil of it, ithe motto of the garters." "honi," an archaic term, used depending on context, is variously defined as "shamed, disgrace and dishonor". To emphasize his point King Charles donned a garter to drive hom his point. Edited January 29 by Henri Charriere Minor die polishing; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/27/2024 at 8:36 PM, victor382 said: Thanks, man. The size and weight seem to be right. It sounds like the only way to determine the authenticity is to bring it to the pro. If you know someone who specializes or is extremely familiar with these I would definitely take it to them. If you're talking about having this authenticated by a TPG that is also a good option if you're relatively certain it's authentic. If you lived near a TPG and could hand deliver it I'd say it'd be a no brainer, put a low dollar value on it and let them decide if it's real. If you're looking to sell it then you could talk with some of the major auction houses to see what they think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) "tueatur unita deus" = God protects those who are united "noni soit qui mal y pense" = no one thinks badly about it Look for initials "WW" at lower right obverse: [Photo from "The Gothic Crown: Victorian Art and the Road to Decimalisation"] Edited January 28 by RWB Fenntucky Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Send your coin to NGC for authentication. The photo suggests at value of about $10,000 if genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 Thanks for all your advices, RWB. Looks like I have those. If I’m not mistaken Fenntucky Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Good. That can be a difficult area to copy when making fakes. Best to send it to NGC for in-hand evaluation. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 Hey, RWB, Thank you for your help. The only thing that I really suspicious is the letters on the edge. I hope I’m wrong… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Based upon the photos submitted, wear appears to be present on a localized area of the obverse of your piece (headband above forelock) but the piece is exquisite and deserves to be encapsulated for posterity. I have never seen one before and it is clear great pains were taken to maintain its lovely state of preservation. Do let us know the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 Thanks Henri. Will keep you posted. Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HobbyCollector Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Based on those lumps on obverse and the styling of edge lettering, it is quite likely a fake I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 Quite maybe. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 In this instance, I don't want to guess from the photos. (I have a proof purchased long ago, but it's sitting in a bank box along with my supply of original Skippy Peanut Butter and a fifth of "Ole Pappy.") Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 On 1/31/2024 at 8:19 PM, RWB said: along with my supply of original Skippy Peanut Butter Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 Hi, RWB! Your reputation will be solid no matter what. I think it is fake. Just 2 good 2 B true. Tomorrow I'll show this coin to the man and see what he has to say. Im ready for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 On 1/31/2024 at 9:35 PM, victor382 said: Hi, RWB! Your reputation will be solid no matter what. I think it is fake. Just 2 good 2 B true. Tomorrow I'll show this coin to the man and see what he has to say. Im ready for anything. To be fair about it, I see some things of concern, but so has RWB, and I can vouch for the fact that the excitability factor your coin has elicited from him is noteworthy -- and he owns one and if he had seen anything untoward, you, me, and everybody else lurking about would know about it. The deal-makers for me are intricate craftsmanship down to the sharply incused W.W. which, depending on how much of a problem counterfeiting was, would not be as noticeable as a V.D.B. cent. And I don't mean on a 1909. That was prominent enough to authorize a re-design. I am talking about the majority of cents which bear, with a few exceptions, the designer's initials on Lincoln's shoulder. It's not something one would ordinarily notice kind of like the rather inconspicuous micro-printed FW on U.S. currency printed by the BEP's facility at Fort Worth, Texas. I believe your average person is unaware that not all paper money is printed in W, D.C. As regarding your lovely coin, I'm going to be "all-in" like Jeopardy's James Holzhauer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 Hello Henry! I appreciate your big heart and support. But with all freaking modern technology you really never know what you are dealing with. I am glad that I can reach to this community and have your opinions - that is the most valuable asset one czz as n hope for. Like-minded people! Thanks again. Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 Hi, guys. I don’t know what to think. I took the coin to this place today https://www.wittercoin.com/ The man checked metal with some kind of Star Wars like weapon, got the weight, looked thru magnifying glass, compared with some reference in his laptop and said that the coin is authentic. I asked twice as I could not believe my ears. So I think he just does not know what is he talking about. I’m just speechless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 After reviewing their website, it appears they specialize in Gold, U.S. coinage. It would be helpful to post specifics on specs you have come to learn about. Authenticity is one key encouraging development. Soldier on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor382 Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 Hi Henry. I did not ask any specifics, cause I was in state of disbelief. He just said that silver probe and parameters are as they should be. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 On 2/1/2024 at 3:58 PM, victor382 said: Hi, guys. I don’t know what to think. I took the coin to this place today https://www.wittercoin.com/ The man checked metal with some kind of Star Wars like weapon, got the weight, looked thru magnifying glass, compared with some reference in his laptop and said that the coin is authentic. I asked twice as I could not believe my ears. So I think he just does not know what is he talking about. I’m just speechless He might have done all he could with the equipment and references available. That reinforces the desirability of sending the coin to NGC. They have resources and experience that Witter Coin's staff do not. Let us all know how it turns out. (The "Star Wars like weapon" was probably a portable XRF (X-ray fluorescence) gun for measuring alloy composition without damaging the coin. Most look like an electric hand drill with a tiny TV screen.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
