2023 Trial of the Pyx coins 1 1

[Fenntucky Mike]

The Royal Mint has been dumping a lot of "specialized" material onto the market over the last few years, even holding their own auctions and looking for consignments. The RM currently has a trial piece auction open for bidding, HERE, and 2023 Trial of the Pyx coins consigned to SB with auction ending in February, HERE. 

What if the U.S. Mint could or did behave similarly, selling canceled dies, trial/test pieces, canceled coins, errors, coins from their archive or museum (if the Mint has one), etc., would collectors and the general public see this as a positive or negative. If the Mint donated such items to an institution to auction would collectors view that differently? 

Video from SB on the Pyx coins.

Edited January 25 by Fenntucky Mike

[Henri Charriere]

Based upon the eyewitness account(s) of member VKurtB, as well as information made available to the general public from a variety of sources, I got the impression any coin chosen was not special but merely representative of a mintage run.  I do not think they would have it any other way.

Then again, I have an inner bias which strongly suggests that mere participation in a ritual is not enough to get me to part with my dollars.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 1/25/2024 at 7:52 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Then again, I have an inner bias which strongly suggests that mere participation in a ritual is not enough to get me to part with my dollars.

The coins are so beat up from handling I wonder why they bother to wear gloves.  I believe SB/NGC gave all of the coins adjectival grades due to condition. Who wants a PF60 coin when you can own a "Brilliant Proof" coin? 

It will be interesting to see what some of these go for since most, if not all, of the coins are ruined. Below are images from the SB website of one of the Pyx coins.

Edited January 26 by Fenntucky Mike

[J P M]

That is not a good-looking coin at all. I have found better looking proofs in pocket change.

[RWB]

These are not legitimate "trial pieces" as understood by American collectors. There is no connection to real circulating coinage.

These were deliberately made to catch a buck (or many bucks) from crows, mice and other accumulators of shiny objects. They are part of a product development and sales program put together by a contractor, and the "auctions" merely use Royal Mint trade dress to add an air of "legitimacy and gravitas" to the hawking of trinkets. (Compare to gem and jewelry sales on TV, or the "Royal Canadian Mint" scam.)

This is simply a gross abuse of the authentic Royal Mint's cachet.

[VKurtB]

Trial of the Pyx coins are often subjected to destructive handling. They should not be expected to be pristine. The Trial of the Pyx is a much more ceremonial activity similar to the past United States Assay Commission examinations in the United States. Those were discontinued in 1980. The British version dates back to the 12th century, like 600 years before there even was a USA. 

Edited January 27 by VKurtB

[Zebo]

I wouldn’t mind picking one of these up:

 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 1/26/2024 at 4:22 PM, RWB said:

These are not legitimate "trial pieces" as understood by American collectors. There is no connection to real circulating coinage.

These were deliberately made to catch a buck (or many bucks) from crows, mice and other accumulators of shiny objects. They are part of a product development and sales program put together by a contractor, and the "auctions" merely use Royal Mint trade dress to add an air of "legitimacy and gravitas" to the hawking of trinkets. (Compare to gem and jewelry sales on TV, or the "Royal Canadian Mint" scam.)

This is simply a gross abuse of the authentic Royal Mint's cachet.

Whatever cachet the RM had flew the coop a while ago, probably around decimalization time and the move to Llantrisant. The RM is suppling these trinkets.

 

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2024 at 7:19 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Whatever cachet the RM had flew the coop a while ago, probably around decimalization time and the move to Llantrisant. The RM is suppling these trinkets.

 

Around the decimalisation, ALL decimal coins were struck at Llantrisant, and ALL pre-decimal coins were struck at the Tower Hill Mint in London. Her Majesty traveled to Llantrisant Wales to strike the first decimal coins personally. I frankly have no idea what Roger is talking about above, and frankly, neither does he. All Pyx coins, whether NIFC or circulating coins, are tested at the Trial of the Pyx. Roger may have his areas of expertise, but the coins of Britain ain’t among them. PERIOD. 

Edited January 27 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 1/26/2024 at 3:22 PM, RWB said:

These are not legitimate "trial pieces" as understood by American collectors. There is no connection to real circulating coinage.

This is an ABSOLUTE LIE!

[zadok]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:46 PM, VKurtB said:

This is an ABSOLUTE LIE!

...absolutely agree....

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:38 PM, VKurtB said:

Around the decimalisation, ALL decimal coins were struck at Llantrisant, and ALL pre-decimal coins were struck at the Tower Hill Mint in London. Her Majesty traveled to Llantrisant Wales to strike the first decimal coins personally. I frankly have no idea what Roger is talking about above, and frankly, neither does he. All Pyx coins, whether NIFC or circulating coins, are tested at the Trial of the Pyx. Roger may have his areas of expertise, but the coins of Britain ain’t among them. PERIOD. 

I believe Roger was talking about the die trial coins in the RM auction, HERE, and not the Pyx coins but he'll have to speak to that. I agree that the die trial pieces are a bit contrived but trial pieces they are none the less, it says so right on them. 

Image of one of the die trial coins being auction by the RM.

Edited January 28 by Fenntucky Mike
Words

[Henri Charriere]

RWB's operative words were: "... as understood by American collectors."  I do not have the requisite knowledge,  anecdotal evidence, or experience in hand to say one way or the other, but intentionally spreading misinformation?  We ought to use an assertion of "ABSOLUTE LIE," sparingly. Didn't "Hillary" concede she simply "misspoke"?  I myself am not averse to admitting I was mistaken. IMHO.

[Henri Charriere]

With RWB yet to respond, I would like to advance another interpretation of his comment, "These are not legitimate "trial pieces" as understood by American collectors."

I believe he was merely emphasizing the fact that these were formal, ceremonial "Trial" [capital T] pieces, as opposed to garden-variety, "trial" [lower- case] pieces -- "as understood by American collectors."

Whether I am right or wrong, in view of his lifetime achievement awards, not to mention, exalted status as Grand Master as well as time spent in the NARA trenches for the enlightenment of hobbyists, I am going to waive my usual consultant's fee.  There will be no bill in the mail for you, Roger!  

Edited February 14 by Henri Charriere
Die polishing (word substitution)

[Fenntucky Mike]

Wow, a lot of reserves were not met in the Pyx auction. SB is listing the passed coins with BIN price tags. 

I haven't seen this many passed coins in a long time.

[Zebo]

Sign of the times or lack of interest in the lots? Maybe just ambitious reserves. I’ll have to go take a peek.

just looked. I guess my lowball bid for the trial plates wasn’t accepted. Nothing that I cannot live without in either part A or B.

Edited February 14 by Zebo

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 2/13/2024 at 6:17 PM, Zebo said:

Sign of the times or lack of interest in the lots? Maybe just ambitious reserves. I’ll have to go take a peek.

My thought is ambitious reserves coupled with the condition of the coins caused people to shy away. 

[VKurtB]

On 2/14/2024 at 5:12 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

My thought is ambitious reserves coupled with the condition of the coins caused people to shy away. 

The reserves were pretty nuts.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 2/14/2024 at 5:17 PM, VKurtB said:

The reserves were pretty nuts.

I wonder how long SB will have to sit on these. I'm not sure if SB purchased them from the RM to auction or if the RM consigned them. Seems like the RM consigned them if I'm reading everything correctly.

I just got another notice from SB for post auction buying of the Pyx coins, looks like there were 376 passed pieces and 244 that sold between the two Pyx auction sessions.

Edited February 14 by Fenntucky Mike

[Zebo]

30 pages of no sales

[Zebo]

On 2/14/2024 at 10:55 PM, Henri Charriere said:

My take, unsubstantiated by cold hard facts, is if I were to acquire one of these storied pieces, I would want it to be a beauty and a sight to behold.  Instead, I see myself having to rationalize their glaring faults (random chaos in the fields) to discriminating connoisseurs for the rest of my life and a thought and prospect I do not relish.  The perfect coin speaks for itself.  It needs no narrator. And that's the way it should be.

Ah, but where is the story and character of it?

[Henri Charriere]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:12 AM, Zebo said:

Ah, but where is the story and character of it?

Come to think of it, you're right!  So right that that is precisely the reason why they sell "distressed" leather clothing and satchels.  I have withdrawn (hidden) my comment.