Abdulah Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Hello Numismatic experts, how are you all? I want to ask if any of you can explain these two SACAGAWEA Dollars Please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 What exactly is it you wish to know about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 They both look normal to me. One has just toned more than the other from circulation. pleas3 be specific with your question, what is it your seeing? The Neophyte Numismatist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 These regular issue 2000-P Sacagawea dollars have a reported mintage of 767,140,000 pieces, so they are not and never will be rare coins. Both have some circulation wear and are worth face value. The large mintages of these coins for circulation in 2000-2001 and of Presidential dollars in 2007-11 represented renewed efforts by the U.S. government (following the failure of Susan B. Anthony dollars) to promote the use of dollar coins instead of dollar bills, but U.S. residents still prefer dollar bills, and these coins hardly circulate in the U.S. outside of mass transit systems. However, they have achieved popularity in some other countries, especially Ecuador, which uses the U.S. dollar as its currency, so millions have been exported overseas. Sacagawea was a young Native American (American Indian) woman of a Shoshone tribe who helped guide the Lewis and Clark Expedition of 1804-06 on its exploration of the sizeable territories the United States had acquired in the Louisiana Purchase of 1803. The obverse is intended to depict Sacagawea and her infant son. As there are no contemporary images of Sacagawea, she was modeled by Randy'L He-dow Teton, a young Native American woman of partly Shoshone descent. Is there anything else you would like to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 Sacagawea on the right is Dollar VIP Firsts Strike and on the left is Dollar Regular Strike, this is my assessment Rare VIP Sacagawea 2000-P First Strike Coin. On November 18, 1999, the United States Mint in Philadelphia held a special ceremony marking the inception of the Sacagawea “gold coin.” An invitation-only event of just under 600, each guest was given the opportunity to manually mint one of the first coins. After doing so, Mint staff recorded their contact information and each was sent their own coin the following year. This is one of those coins. The available pieces have much higher relief and finer detail than the typical 2000-P Sacagawea coin, as each VIP coin is struck using a medal press. Recognized by SEGS and ANACS as a unique coin in the Sacagawea series, SEGS has awarded this coin a “First Strike/VIP, MS-68” certification rating. Included in the lot is a Sacagawea VIP First Strike 2000-P coin, its original box, and a certificate of authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I see nothing special about your coins. There is no VIP issue. There are valuable varieties, but these are not those. You have $2 in value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 On 1/11/2024 at 6:41 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: I see nothing special about your coins. There is no VIP issue. There are valuable varieties, but these are not those. You have $2 in value. 🐓: Why do I feel there are 600 invitation-only guests out there, somewhere, absolutely fuming that something they participated in, did not happen because the half-cent guy said so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 On 1/12/2024 at 6:41 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: I see nothing special about your coins. There is no VIP issue. There are valuable varieties, but these are not those. You have $2 in value. Please explain the results of your analysis in detail and be sure that if the dollar is an ordinary coin, where did you learn about specifically AMERICAN coins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) No. You do not have a special coin. Your coin was not stuck by a medal press by mint staff. It's just an ordinary SAC dollar. Edited January 12 by The Neophyte Numismatist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 On 1/12/2024 at 9:07 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: No. You do not have a special coin. Your coin was not stuck by a medal press by mint staff. It's just an ordinary SAC dollar. How do you know, Do you immediately think that this is just an ordinary dollar without a clear thesis? Even though in the history of cemony it has been explained that the condition of VIP dollars is that the OBVERSE and REVERSE surfaces are very smooth and the writing is very good, neat, there are also differences in the RIM , different from ordinary dollars, because what could happen like this? because these dollars are made with medal molds, try to pay attention to the very big difference between the two. dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) Guess you are right. Submit it. Edit note: My analysis. I went to your profile and read all your posts. Every coin you post is about an error that isn't. You are batting 1000. Edited January 12 by The Neophyte Numismatist Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Please note that it is very difficult to read your posts in large font, which must be slid over by clicking a mouse and are still cut off before the end on my computer screen. I am unable to read portions of them. Please use the regular font and type size for this forum. A Guide Book of United States Coins, Deluxe Edition, known as the "Mega Red" version of the "Redbook", in its Seventh Edition (2021), at p. 871 has the following statement regarding a "VIP" striking of 2000-P Sacagawea dollars, which is not widely known or included among listed varieties: "On November 18, 1999, a first-strike ceremony was held at the Philadelphia Mint. Invited dignitaries and guests were on hand, and some were allowed to push a button to have a coin struck. A medal (not high-speed circulation-strike) press was used. These coins had a special finish, lightly polished in appearance. It is thought that fewer than 600 were struck. Some of these were later packaged and sent to those in attendance at the ceremony. The special characteristics of these have not been well defined in numismatic literature. Coins privately polished outside of the Mint have confused the matter." (Emphasis added.) The coins whose photos you posted at the beginning of this topic and in your last reply are uncertified, unaccompanied by any special packaging or documentation, and are lightly worn, with the coin on the right in the initial post, which you indicated was the "VIP striking", having turned brown with traces of greenish corrosion. Neither coin shows any indication of a "special finish", "lightly polished" or otherwise. The description of these coins in the Deluxe "Redbook" ascribes no special characteristics to the lettering (not "writing") on these coins or their rims, nor does the coin you contend is a VIP striking exhibit any such characteristics. You have presented no evidence that either of these coins is anything other than a regular strike. Please note that modern, genuine coins are struck by dies on presses, not cast in molds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 On 1/12/2024 at 10:56 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: Guess you are right. Submit it. Edit note: My analysis. I went to your profile and read all your posts. Every coin you post is about an error that isn't. You are batting 1000. On 1/12/2024 at 10:56 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: Guess you are right. Submit it. Edit note: My analysis. I went to your profile and read all your posts. Every coin you post is about an error that isn't. You are batting 1000. On 1/12/2024 at 10:56 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: Guess you are right. Submit it. Edit note: My analysis. I went to your profile and read all your posts. Every coin you post is about an error that isn't. You are batting 1000. On 1/12/2024 at 10:56 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: Guess you are right. Submit it. Edit note: My analysis. I went to your profile and read all your posts. Every coin you post is about an error that isn't. You are batting 1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 Minting machines for medals and tokens have better results and medal and token minting machines can only mint less than hundreds of millions of metal pieces Medal or token. This is different from coin minting machines in general, where the minting results are not as good as minting machines specifically for medals and tokens So it is clear that these genuine VIP dollars are made using a medal and token minting machine because the appearance is very smooth and very clear and not rough and the edges or rims are flat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 (edited) Vip firts strike Vip First Strike REGULAR STRIKE REGULAR STRIKE Edited January 12 by Abdulah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 An MS-68 is an extraordinarily high grade for a coin. And yet you present it raw with no documentation to support your claim. Have you any special documentation or packaging to support your claim? With those in hand, you would not need to resort to explanation of any kind. And with certification the coin you claim is special could speak for itself. Frankly, you come across unsure and somewhat defensive. If the narrative does not fit, I would not submit. Abdulah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 On 1/12/2024 at 8:25 AM, Henri Charriere said: absolutely Yes, I really agree with you Henri, that's the weakness of this dollar, it doesn't have a special box and a certificate of origin This dollar was first received by a special guest, This dollar traveled to Indonesia naked 9 years ago, in condition like the photo, and not After cleaning it completely, I finally kept it in a special plastic coin container until now. I hope too maybe you have the best advice for me about this coin. thanks Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 (edited) On 1/12/2024 at 3:10 PM, Henri Charriere said: An MS-68 is an extraordinarily high grade for a coin. And yet you present it raw with no documentation to support your claim. Have you any special documentation or packaging to support your claim? With those in hand, you would not need to resort to explanation of any kind. And with certification the coin you claim is special could speak for itself. Frankly, you come across unsure and somewhat defensive. If the narrative does not fit, I would not Yes, I really agree with you Carriere , that's the weakness of this dollar, it doesn't have a special box and a certificate of origin This dollar was first received by a special guest, This dollar traveled to Indonesia naked 9 years ago, in condition like the photo, and not yet cleaning it completely, I finally kept it in a special plastic coin container until now. I hope too maybe you have the best advice for me about this coin. thanks Henri carriere Edited January 12 by Abdulah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 On 1/11/2024 at 11:28 AM, Abdulah said: Hello Numismatic experts, how are you all? I want to ask if any of you can explain these two SACAGAWEA Dollars Please ? Both are normal coins stuck for circulation with the one on the left being in better overall condition. The coin on the right is discolored from circulation/environmental conditions and looks more defined because of the discoloration and all the crud trapped in the details. VKurtB and The Neophyte Numismatist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Abdulah, you are doing the right thing by posting coins here. It looks like where you are from US coins are selling for a big price and most of the coins you post here are just normal coins. Unless it has been graded coin you are doing the right thing by asking before you buy. Abdulah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 On 1/12/2024 at 8:30 PM, J P M said: doing All the coins that I post here are from my own collection which I have kept for a long time because I have a hobby of nusmismatic art, most of the American and Indonesian coins as well as Dutch colonial Indies coins, and Indonesian banknotes, ringgit and cents, are still in very good condition. I don't know the origin of all the coins and banknotes, whether they were inherited from grandfather, etc. or when my grandmother was not born, they were already in an old cupboard, said my late mother. Back in the 80s, paper money and cents were shared among all my relatives, but unfortunately the money was made into toys. In particular, Sacagawea was a gift given to a friend, a rare coin dealer in Jakarta who was quite old, he gave the coin naked, I thought it was an ordinary coin, I have kept the coin for a long time, maybe there is still a certificate and a protective box for the dollar in it. there, because a few days ago I saw the Canadian silver coin that I was hunting for along with the certificate and protective box which were still well stored, it is possible that the certificate document and protective box of the Sacagawea Dollar are still there or stored there. I will look for that document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 @Abdulah I was being sarcastic. I do not believe you are correct. Just as you are generally incorrect on every other coin you post. I am glad you like coins... but to think everything you get in change is special is just not realistic. If you submit any of the coins you have posted, you are guaranteed to lose money. But... It's not my money, so do as you wish. Abdulah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 @TheNeophyte The question is, when do I buy my snack and will I get the money back...????? The Dollar 2000 P Sacagawea coin was not change! but a gift from a friend who was old or old, he was a rare coin dealer in Jakarta, he gave the coin to me when I was bidding on a certified Canadian Mepel silver coin and had a protective box, he gave me the Sacagawea Coin naked he gave coins for free .. Sorry, you need to know that I always update reading the coin catalog at PCGS COIN FACT and I understand all US coins, sorry, actually I'm pretending to be stupid here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Perfect. No need to continue the banter. I am glad you are a numismatic expert who is "pretending". Best of luck in your submission... don't forget to submit at the highest their and insure those treasures to the gills. You should probably do the coin conservation, get special label and variety attribution, too. Thanks for teaching me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Final advice: until more information becomes available, I would not submit this coin for certification. Unless a Grading Finalizer has made Sac dollars the subject of his personal area of interest, and absent any compelling distinguishing characteristics, your coin will be graded routinely. There is little time available to graders to research each and every claim made by submitters. That is why documentation -- and chains of custody are important -- and why so-called First Strikes must be forwarded, intact, within a specific time- frame for special label attribution. If you feel strongly about your coin(s) I would place them in protective flips with appropriate notes, and set them aside. As member @Woods020once wisely opined: "read more, submit less, and question eveything." (12/15/2020) Abdulah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) Here in the “western world”, we once had a very famous astronomer who reminded us all that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. I guess that’s not true in Indonesia. Apparently there, a wild claim is itself evidence. Here are the facts. You have absolutely normal 2000-P Sacagawea dollars, of which 100’s of millions were made. As usual, you are so far into self-delusion that it’s amazing. On January 1, 2000, the Walmart stores in the U.S. started actively distributing these dollars in change. They were made “early” and were distributed nationwide. I saved 8 of these “first day Walmart” Sacagawea dollars and they have a unique toning, compared with set coins or rolled coins. Mine are nothing special EITHER, just like yours. They went into Eagle brand coin holders on 1/1/00 and are still in those holders, 24 years and 12 days later. Edited January 13 by VKurtB Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 (edited) To KurtB Dear Sir I don't fantasize about this coin, and also don't fantasize about getting a lot of money from it, and I also agree and am normal in arguing that if you call it normal money and millions are circulating, however, there must also be proof from you that the dollars are exactly the same as those I have that with the dollars you have, also with the dollars in circulation in general, let's try to show it is the same or not? Don't you see there is a striking difference between what I call the VIP first strike dollar and the regular strike dollar? This is the difference that should be discussed, not this imaginary problem that is being discussed. The main point of this argument is why the dollar that I call the VIP first strike is so Very good and smooth, the appearance of the front and back faces is also flat, the rim is different from regular strike dollars in general, here I give an example, there are Indonesian palm oil coins Rp. 1000 rupiah, both 1996, try to see the difference even though the coins were issued in the same year , please answer, thank you sir Edited January 13 by Abdulah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 🐓: What's that line you hit the late, great Oldhoop with? Q.A.: "You opened the door, counselor!" 🤣 * * * I believe the OP is simply expressing his passion for this coin. There is no ulterior motive whatever. The only "opinion" that counts is that of the graders and, however interesting a story may be, they are going to insist that any claim be substantiated by documentary evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 (edited) TO Henri Can you show me Henri my sentence says what i mean is OLDHOOP? Edited January 13 by Abdulah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdulah Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 TO Henri Hello Henri, in the world of numismatics it can be seen that your language in coin identification is very reasonable and expert and professional with your language style and sharp sarcasm towards people, so that's why I want to ask you, 1 . Since you have been involved in the world of numismatics, has your money ever been sold at auction for a fairly decent price? 2. Do you currently have coins that have been certified by PCGS, NGC, ANAC, ICG, etc. at MS grade? 3. What achievements can you obtain while you are involved in the world of Numismatics? 4. Are you someone who works in the company PCGS, NGC, ANAC, ICG, etc. in the special grading of coin valuation? Please answer???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
