CACG has arrived. Loudly knocking. Will NGC and PCGS answer the door? Do you think NGC and PCGS will counter CACG and their "premium certification" services with their own new services or certifications? 2 2

[World Colonial]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:41 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

JA said you see thise once in a Blue Moon....I think this shows that while there might be more out there (there certainly are)...there aren't DOZENS or HUNDREDS of sets like this or even approximating this set. 

A few raw coins here or there at best, IMO.

It doesn't take sets of this size to impact the price level noticeably.  Numerous individual coins will do it.

For the non-US coinage I've used as a comparison, almost certainly not usually (large) collections.  Outside of "name" collections, the few I've seen for my series have been both incomplete and (mostly) abysmal quality.

Edited April 28 by World Colonial

[World Colonial]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:47 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Very interesting, thanks for the heads-up, WC. 

But I think this is the proverbial outlier, no ?  I mean...we're talking here someone who worked with famous numismatists who lived over a century ago....who saved GOLD coins....coins in PRISTINE condition....and worth Big $$$.

I don't think there are many entire collections like this just sitting in a vault, a home, or an attic. 

I'd have to find the article so you can read Garrett's comments and Stacks' reply in context.  I tried to do that earlier today but would have to search the articles in the archive and I don't remember the publish date.  It's out there if you want to do it.

Stack wasn't specific.  He didn't mention any specific coin or coins.  I interpreted his comments generically, as I've tried to explain here.

[zadok]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:30 AM, Henri Charriere said:

A clearly characteristic example of the classic well-documented cohort: nattering nabobs of negativism with an ample helping of defensiveness that adds nothing to the body of knowledge. To quote the late, great sportscaster:  "Let's go to the videotape."

1.  If one were to declare the more precise figure is 37%, who would challenge it?  If anything, no one could because the figure is transitory and in a perpetual state of Flux -- which forever, thereafter remains because no one is equipped with the irrefutable artillery: the cold hard facts.

2.  A neither-here, neither there, self-serving, autobiographical statement if ever there was one.  The latter part of this statement is impossible to prove or disprove and in the highly unlikely event in can, what statistical data or marketing data would the author rely on or care to cite to support this incredible, fantastical prognostication?

3.  ABSOLUTE CONJECTURE in its near-purist form:  99.44%

4.  SELF-SERVING ASSERTION ANY SELF-APPOINTED KING CAN MAKE TO HIS INTRINSICALLY UNWASHED UNINFORMED SUBJECTS.

5.  "placed"?  Not lent per legal codicil.  Disavows "constructive possession."  Left?  Purposely left vague. Intrepretation: that is for me and the recipient(s) to know; and for you or the --- to find out.

6. A curious comment:  "nor do I expect them to be..."  Wishy-washy terminological inexactitudes.  Do you not know the state of your own mind or those mythical creatures you entrusted your treasures to and periodically entertain us with?

7.  Inherently rude but a polite Board Guideline- approved way of saying:  "Have a Nice Day."

UPSHOT:  A SIZEABLE BANDWIDTH OF MEASURED BABBLING THAT ADDS NOTHING AS A "REPLY TO THE TOPIC."

🐓:  I concur. 

...to summarize:...poster once again has nothing to add to the discussion, more text book obsession to be a part of everything even if incoherently...babble, babble babble....

Edited April 28 by zadok
spelling

[zadok]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:34 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Worth gettiing graded, or coins that are going to be left raw since they are not in a high-enough condition to merit certification ?

...neither, most of the truly super rare n high end coins u have seen sold in the past few years had remained raw n were not graded until after the decision to sell them n after the various auction houses insisted due to increased auction results n increased returns adding on to that many of the then graded coins were submitted to be cac'd to add on more increased returns, prior to these decisions to sell, many of these higher end coins were not reflected in known censuses of their respective series n many such coins will remain raw until a decision to sell happens....

[numisport]

On 4/27/2024 at 6:49 PM, Henri Charriere said:

 There is only one reason why ALL slabs cannot be housed in one universal box.  And I find that reason to be anti-social, anti-ethical, illogical and personally repugnant. As a matter of fact, I am going to stick my neck out and show my true colors. What some term competition goes way beyond that when there is no one anyone can appeal to, to review your case, and walk away with the satisfaction that your grievance was pored over by experienced professionals who rendered a rational decision in good faith -- which is why, for example, Federal judges are lifetime appointees.  I have seen too many cases where the aggrieved was forced to submit to the wills of others who function in complete anonymity and have their way for no other reason than because they can.  There is something rotten in the state of Denmark and a good part of the problem is a reluctance of collectors (or retirees, in good standing) to raise the hue and cry.  I believe I have said it before and I WILL SAY IT AGAIN.  MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING AND IT IS NOT MONEY BUT THE LOVE OF MONEY THAT IS THE ROOT OF ALL PEOPLE!  Should I manage to come into a sizeable bit of money, theoretically possible but highly implausible, I will not be accepting congratulations.... only condolences. I will dedicate every fiber of my being to making the crooked paths straight for all who have been wronged -- a subject which has been assiduously avoided by a sizable number of people who, for for various reasons, have been cowed into silence.

(Posted at the discretion of Moderation and Top Management which walks softly but carries a Big Stick.)

Knock!  Knock!

Go see who it is, Ricky!

🐓:  Your wish is my command, sire!... 

Q.A.:  What's that?

🐓 :  A cup of coffee and a cruller... from Kurt... with a message...

Q.A.:  What's is say?

🐓 :  Yo, take a chill pill!  😎 

 

 

  

Let me offer my condolence ahead of time for I believe that you sincerely want to right the numismatic society of its wrongs and are doing so without that chunk of money you are due !

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/29/2024 at 5:10 PM, numisport said:

Let me offer my condolence ahead of time for I believe that you sincerely want to right the numismatic society of its wrongs and are doing so without that chunk of money you are due !

Respectfully, the hobby lacks direction.  Coins are being submitted because Newbies (and not a few Oldies) seem to feel "that's what hobbyists do."   Very very few newly-minted coins require certifications.  Newbies to the hobby are bum-rushed by exasperated long-time collectors who have neither the "bedside manner" or inclination to provide meaningful advice in a non-hostile manner.  Collectors are being charged fees by those whose simple glance at below-par submissions ought to compel them to pick up the phone and review the manner with the very people responsible for their existence. One negative experience is all it takes to have a prospective hobbyist reconsider his career options. If I won a billion dollars (which would yield a few hundred million dollars, after taxes) I would reimburse all collectors with a legitimate grudge as well as victims of scamsters and those [mainly older folks] who lost their life's savings to those without a conscience.  I am a pauper by choice. What more could I possibly need than food, clothing and and shelter.  I have no debts.  I would share my largesse with those whose sympathies lie with mine. If I am unable to compile the "best possible set" in my area of interest, I will devote my efforts to those who have a good shot at compiling the finest set of tokens and braided half cents.  No more Butcher Hollow for Headhog; a tankful of premium gasoline for Kurt; an offer no reasonable person can refuse to upgrade Just Bob's tic-tac-token boards; generous research funds for RWB, a double-eagle of choice for GF1969 and operating funds for Sandon. And... a Petty Cash endowment for NGC to cater to those who suffered the the cost of making an ill-advised choice through no fault of their own.  I remain optimistic.

ATTENTION: MODERATION. Feel free to move this post to an appropriate topic, or edit, or scrap, as you see fit.  No hard feelings.  We are all friends here.

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/29/2024 at 6:01 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Respectfully, the hobby lacks direction.  Coins are being submitted because Newbies (and not a few Oldies) seem to feel "that's what hobbyists do."   Very very few newly-minted coins require certifications.  Newbies to the hobby are bum-rushed by exasperated long-time collectors who have neither the "bedside manner" or inclination to provide meaningful advice in a non-hostile manner.  Collectors are being charged fees by those whose simple glance at below-par submissions ought to compel them to pick up the phone and review the matter with the very people responsible for their livelihood.. One negative experience is all it takes to have a prospective hobbyist reconsider his career options. If I won a billion dollars (which would yield a few hundred million dollars, after taxes) I would reimburse all collectors with a legitimate, documented grudge as well as victims of scamsters and those [mainly older folks] who lost their life's savings to those without a conscience.  I am a pauper by choice. What more could I possibly need than food, clothing and and shelter?  I have no debts. I have kept my word to all of my cherished colleagues.  I would share my largesse with those whose sympathies lie with mine. If I am unable to compile the "best possible set" in my area of interest, I will devote my efforts to those who have a good shot at compiling the finest set of tokens and braided half cents.  No more Butcher Hollow for Headhog; a tankful of premium gasoline for Kurt; an offer no reasonable person can refuse to upgrade Just Bob's tic-tac-token boards; generous research funds for RWB, a double-eagle of choice for GF1969 and operating funds for Sandon. Pet Project:... a Petty Cash endowment for NGC to cater to those who suffered the the cost of making an ill-advised choice through no fault of their own.  I remain optimistic.

ATTENTION: MODERATION. Feel free to move this post to an appropriate topic, or edit, or scrap, as you see fit.  No hard feelings.  We are all friends here.

 

[Henri Charriere]

Alright, okay... the Double-Eagle I bestow upon you will be one of my choice. I give you my word it will not be the '30-S lowball. 🤣

[Cat Bath]

On 4/29/2024 at 6:39 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Alright, okay... the Double-Eagle I bestow upon you will be one of my choice. 🤣

I'm not taking a MS67 Marianne with a switchblade mark on her face either, no matter how shiny she is.

F-CAC...You should be glad you don't have to deal with that dork-nozzle.

Edited May 3 by Cat Bath

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/3/2024 at 2:03 AM, Cat Bath said:

I'm not taking a MS67 Marianne with a switchblade mark on her face either, no matter how shiny she is.

F-CAC...You should be glad you don't have to deal with that dork-nozzle.

A dork nozzle, where, up my schnozzola?  I regard everyone who carries a nozzle or muzzle as an abject loser.  The brains - - - has give me has held me in good stead.  Through thick and thin, I have always prevailed.  And if something happened, and I were dispatched suddenly, what would I have left to fear about? Nothing.  Death tends to reduce things to their losest common denominator.  Most people worry about living, not dying. Besides, I have a  🐓 collection to complete.  There's always a time to die.  Capiche?

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/4/2024 at 9:42 AM, Henri Charriere said:

A dork nozzle, where, up my schnozzola?  I regard everyone who carries a nozzle or muzzle as an abject loser.  The brains - - - has give me has held me in good stead.  Through thick and thin, I have always prevailed.  And if something happened, and I were suddenly, suddenly and without warning, what would I have left to fear about? Nothing.  Death tends to reduce things to their lowest common denominator.  Most people worry about living, not dying. Besides, I have a  🐓 collection to complete.  There's always a time to die.  Capiche?

 

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/4/2024 at 9:42 AM, Henri Charriere said:

A dork nozzle, where, up my schnozzola?  I regard everyone who carries a nozzle or muzzle as an abject loser.  The brain - - - has give me has held me in good stead.  Through thick and thin, I have always prevailed.  And if something happened, and I were dispatched suddenly, what would I have left to fear about? Nothing.  Death tends to reduce things to their losest common denominator.  Most people worry about living, not dying. Besides, I have a  🐓 collection to complete.  There's always a time to die.  Capiche?

 

[GoldFinger1969]

 

Bumping this ahead of the Spam/Malware Threads that have now moved from Currency to Coins.