Real or fake and grading 1 1

[LILpitik]

 

Hi there! I came across this Morgan dollar online that caught my eye, and I'm considering purchasing it for approximately 150 euros. I was hoping to get your thoughts on its authenticity and, if confirmed genuine, what grade you would assign to it.
Thank you,have a great day.Weight is 26.68g.

Edited December 17, 2023 by LILpitik

[Coinbuf]

It appears to be a heavily damaged and harshly cleaned coin, many collectors would not want that in their collection even at that discounted cost.   This is just my personal opinion, but I would not pay over $50 (roughly 40 euros), but I live in the US and I do not know the market for items like this where you live.   As to the real vs fake question, I do not see any obvious signs of it being a counterfeit, the weight is within tolerance for a circulated coin, and this is not one of the dates/mm's that is commonly seen as a counterfeit.

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board. 

  The 1878-CC Morgan dollar in your photos appears to be genuine. The weight you report is near its statutory weight of 26.73 grams and within the legal tolerance of 0.097 gram. The coin has Extremely Fine to About Uncirculated details but has heavy marks on Liberty's face as well as rim damage. It also has hairlines that are sufficiently extensive that a grading service would likely describe it as "cleaned". The photos show it being improperly handled; a coin with collector value should never be touched with bare hands, except, if necessary, by its edges.

    I would give the coin a net grade of Very Fine, which has a retail list value in both the NGC Price Guide and Coin World of $200. I'm not sure how this price converts into euros, but I would probably "pass" on this offer and look for an unimpaired example of this popular but not particularly rare date and mint. If you wanted this coin as an example of a Morgan dollar rather than for its date and mint, you should probably look for one of the dates that is common in mid-level uncirculated grades like MS 64 (Choice to Very Choice Brilliant Uncirculated), which have current retail list values of $125 to $150 and might be available for less. "S" mint dates from 1879 to 1882 are in this category and tend to be particularly nice looking in this condition.

[Fenntucky Mike]

I'd pass and wait for a better looking example of this type.

[EagleRJO]

The coin does not have a lot of wear but it's in poor condition with the cleaning, dings, scratches and heavy bag marks, particularly in the face area which is a significant distraction, so I would pass.  And the person selling it doesn't know how to handle coins.  Was there a reason you were looking to possible buy this coin even though it's impared?

[LILpitik]

On 12/17/2023 at 8:51 PM, EagleRJO said:

The coin does not have a lot of wear but it's in poor condition with the cleaning, dings, scratches and heavy bag marks, particularly in the face area which is a significant distraction, so I would pass.  And the person selling it doesn't know how to handle coins.  Was there a reason you were looking to possible buy this coin even though it's impared?

 

Hello,thank you for the reply.I've checked out similar Morgan dollars on eBay around this price, and I actually like this coin better than the ones I saw.After considering all the opinions I've received today, I'm leaning towards passing on this offer. I might increase my budget a bit and go for a nicer one.

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!

I see no evidence of your coin being counterfeit from the photos (although that can be difficult to ascertain from just photos) but with the weight being nearly spot on for a legitimate example and no outstanding visible anomalies, I would say your coin is genuine.

I do note the coin you have chosen as far as grade and mintmark becomes exponentially more expensive in higher grades so possibly that is why you chose this as a specimen because of its asking price. I agree with the others that the coin is being mishandled in the photos, has been previously cleaned, has some heavy marks from circulation as well as some rim damage.

If I may ask to probe a little further, what is it about this coin that caught your eye? The fact that it has better details than some of the more heavily worn specimens, or its relative level of "shine" or something else? 

[LILpitik]

On 12/17/2023 at 10:40 PM, powermad5000 said:

Hello and welcome!

I see no evidence of your coin being counterfeit from the photos (although that can be difficult to ascertain from just photos) but with the weight being nearly spot on for a legitimate example and no outstanding visible anomalies, I would say your coin is genuine.

I do note the coin you have chosen as far as grade and mintmark becomes exponentially more expensive in higher grades so possibly that is why you chose this as a specimen because of its asking price. I agree with the others that the coin is being mishandled in the photos, has been previously cleaned, has some heavy marks from circulation as well as some rim damage.

If I may ask to probe a little further, what is it about this coin that caught your eye? The fact that it has better details than some of the more heavily worn specimens, or its relative level of "shine" or something else? 

 

I was particularly drawn to the details on this coin compared to others I've come across. However, I'm currently placing a bid on a more appealing specimen of the same kind.

[powermad5000]

I see. The first years starting in the Morgan series all typically have good details as the dies had just been created and were not overused.

Only one more question if I may, why did you choose the CC mintmark? Why not an S mintmark? Is it you wanted a CC specimen, or just a Morgan specimen? Where I am going with these questions is that you could find an awesome 1878 S in MS 64 for much cheaper than a CC specimen in even MS 60.

[LILpitik]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:06 PM, powermad5000 said:

I see. The first years starting in the Morgan series all typically have good details as the dies had just been created and were not overused.

Only one more question if I may, why did you choose the CC mintmark? Why not an S mintmark? Is it you wanted a CC specimen, or just a Morgan specimen? Where I am going with these questions is that you could find an awesome 1878 S in MS 64 for much cheaper than a CC specimen in even MS 60.

I have an 1881 S in MS 64,I was interested in the mintmark and the rarity of it.

 

[powermad5000]

Very well!

Then I wish you good luck in winning your auction and a nicer CC! 

[Sandon]

On 12/17/2023 at 4:24 PM, LILpitik said:

I was interested in the mintmark and the rarity of it.

  The most common Carson City ("CC") Morgan dollars are those dated 1882, 1883, and especially 1884, a majority of whose original mintages were still in U.S. Treasury vaults in uncirculated condition when the government stopped paying out silver dollars at face value in 1964. These coins, along with some better dates, were sold in a series of government sales between 1972 and 1980. You can buy a nice BU example (MS 63-64) of these dates for $325-$400, either in the government issued box or in a grading service holder. I recommend avoiding buying coins on eBay, except from sellers who are otherwise established, reputable coin dealers, such as those who are members of the Professional Numismatists Guild.

   Actually, there are no "rare" Morgan dollars by date and mint, at least in the sense that some other coins of which only a few pieces exist are considered rare. Even the scarcest dates, such as the 1889-CC, 1893-S, and 1894, have many thousands of pieces certified by grading services.  They are just very popular and have heavy demand, resulting in high prices. Certain issues could be called legitimately rare in higher uncirculated grades, however.

[EagleRJO]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:02 PM, LILpitik said:

I might increase my budget a bit and go for a nicer one.

You will likely be happier in the long run doing that.  And I agree with Sandon about avoiding raw coins on sites like Etsy/eBay except from larger very reputable dealers.  There are counterfeits all over those sites.

[LILpitik]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:48 PM, powermad5000 said:

Very well!

Then I wish you good luck in winning your auction and a nicer CC! 

Thanks, and I also wish you the best of luck!