DamonM Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 Bought a lot of coins. Two stood out. 1804 liberty draped bust and 1870s seated liberty dollar. Trying to discern the authenticity. I understand that 1804 had lettered edge except for class 2 . Mine has no lettering, just reeded. The 1870s seated has had the motto erases for whatever reason, god hater perhaps, but anyhow, just trying to figure authenticity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.cutler Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 Welcome to the forum. Well, the 1804 is clearly a fake, the pictures of the 1870 are too blurry to say. Can you post clearer pictures, obverse and reverse? powermad5000 and Sandon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) Agree with the 1807 being a fake. As stated, a clear photo of both sides of the 1870 will be required but if it has no motto, then it also is a fake as the last year for the No Motto was 1865 Edited December 2, 2023 by Greenstang l.cutler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 They are both counterfeits. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 Welcome to the NGC chat board. The "1804" dollar is a very crude and often seen fake that looks nothing like the Class I so-called "originals" or "novodels" struck at the U.S. mint in about 1834-35 for presentation to foreign rulers or the so-called "restrikes" (mostly Class III) struck after 1857 for dealers or collectors with connections at the mint. (The unique "Class II" piece in the Smithsonian was struck over an 1857 Swiss shooting thaler.) The genuine "1804" dollars were made from planchets with lettered edges that were crushed by the close collars used in striking the coins, not plain or reeded edges. Some years ago, someone showed me about a dozen of these same crude fakes with reeded edges. See https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1804-1-original-class/6907 for photos of and information about the very rare and famous genuine pieces. Regarding the 1870 Liberty Seated dollar, please post clearer photos of both sides of the coin. It appears that the date numerals are different than on the genuine coin, and all coins of this year would have the motto "IN GOD WE TRUST" on the reverse. See 1870 $1 MS | Coin Explorer | NGC (ngccoin.com). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 There are decent and bad counterfeits of 1804 dollars. Then there are the atrocious, and unfortunately, yours is among them. Can't speak to the 1870 due to the pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 The 1804 dollar is a common reproduction seen on etsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Quote The 1804 dollar is a common reproduction seen on etsy. There are actually quite a lot of counterfeits and misattributed coins on Etsy, not just very valuable ones like the 1804 dollar. Stay away from Etsy when buying raw coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 The 1870 dollar has genuine staples....that's about it. Mike Meenderink and EagleRJO 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonM Posted December 4, 2023 Author Share Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) Thank you for all your input. It’s nice to be able to ask questions without being given the ol stink eye. Too bad for fake coins. Yes, better pics are on the way. The motto seems to have been there but probably removed by someone who has a beef with God. Edited December 4, 2023 by DamonM Missing context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 Unfortunately, the purported 1870-S Liberty Seated dollar is also counterfeit. The 1870-S is an extremely rare issue of which only nine pieces are known to exist. The genuine ones have the motto above the eagle and a much smaller "S" mintmark, as well as other characteristics that don't match your piece. See 1870 S $1 MS | Coin Explorer | NGC (ngccoin.com) for photos of and information about the genuine coin. Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 You know what they say about "if something seems too good to be true". It doesn't matter with these coins, but if you are going to handle coins with your bare hands only touch them on the edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) So now that you are aware that those are counterfeit coins, please understand that it is considered fraud to re-sell those coins without disclosing that they are known fakes. If they are in fact made of silver, then they are worth bullion or melt value, but I highly doubt they are even silver. Personally, if I run across coins like this in a garage sale lot or other large group buy, I methodically destroy or melt (if precious) ALL of those coins. I urge you to take one for the team and destroy them to keep them out of the hobby and marketplace so you will be the last one hoodwinked by them. Thanks and good luck hope things go better for you. Edited December 4, 2023 by Mike Meenderink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Given that you already found a couple of bogus pieces in that lot, if you have as much sense as you seem to, you will now be questioning the authenticity of any piece therein that seems to be valuable enough anyone would bother to counterfeit it. Just Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 On 12/2/2023 at 2:40 AM, DamonM said: Bought a lot of coins. Two stood out. 1804 liberty draped bust and 1870s seated liberty dollar. Trying to discern the authenticity. I understand that 1804 had lettered edge except for class 2 . Mine has no lettering, just reeded. The 1870s seated has had the motto erases for whatever reason, god hater perhaps, but anyhow, just trying to figure authenticity Oh FFS. Lord have mercy. Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonM Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 VKurtB ummmm, great help and advice. Exactly the point of my last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
