1982 D error penny 1 1

[Fitzon00]

If you look at the “E” in we also the “S” in trust. Maybe some other letters also. It seems like there’s doubling. I was also wondering if this 1982 D that weighs 3.1g/3.0g is a small date or not?  Thank you for taking your time and getting back to me. 

[Greenstang]

Welcome to the Chat Board

First, that is a Large Date 1982. Also those marks are not doubling, they look like they have taken a hit displacing the metal which would make it damage.
 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Greenstang
Correct typo

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum, 100% with greenstang, you have a large date so the weight is normal.   Also agree the lettering is not from doubling but from damage that occurred from a couple of perfectly placed hits.

[Fitzon00]

It really looks like there’s an S under the “E” in we. For the S I could see damage but when I took another picture I can’t see any of it. 

[Fitzon00]

The bottom of the E looks like the ending to an S  it has a perfect curve and everything  

Edited November 30, 2023 by Fitzon00

[Coinbuf]

On 11/30/2023 at 4:43 PM, Fitzon00 said:

The bottom of the E looks like the ending to an S  it has a perfect curve and everything  

The mint did not hand punch letters into dies at the time this coin was coined, so the only rational possibility is a dropped letter.   The problem with that is that a dropped letter would be an incuse impression not raised, so that is not possible.   Much like we all see different shapes in clouds it is not difficult for our brain to see something that it then interprets as real, it is a phenomenon called pareidolia, and we see that many times here on the forum. 

[Sandon]

    Welcome to the NGC chat board.

    It appears to me that what you want us to see is an optical illusion created by bright light reflected back from the coin's surface.  What appears to be the outline of most of an "S" inside the "E" is white and doesn't match the reddish-brown color of the coin. There are similar, more randomly shaped white emanations around or within most of the other letters of the motto. Tellingly, the supposed "S" can't be seen in the photos taken at a greater distance, which are less brightly lit.  It also doesn't match any "S" or any feature on the coin's design and, as indicated by @Coinbuf, can't be a "dropped letter" or to my knowledge any other mint error or die variety. See https://www.error-ref.com/?s=dropped+letter.

    As others have indicated, your coin is a 1982-D large date, which is common in either brass (95% copper, 3.11 grams) or copper-plated zinc (2.5 grams) composition. Here is a diagram supplied by @EagleRJO showing the differences between the small and large date varieties:

[EagleRJO]

On 11/30/2023 at 6:41 PM, Fitzon00 said:

I think that photo tells the whole story as Sandon noted, since it appears the lighting being used is sending you down rabbit holes.

If you are using a scope to quickly check coins and you see something like that, pick up the coin and examine it with a 10x loupe or mag glass while you turn it in your hand.  That is also helpful when checking for luster and doubling.

[VKurtB]

On 11/30/2023 at 7:33 PM, EagleRJO said:

I think that photo tells the whole story as Sandon noted, since it appears the lighting being used is sending you down rabbit holes.

If you are using a scope to quickly check coins and you see something like that, pick up the coin and examine it with a 10x loupe or mag glass while you turn it in your hand.  That is also helpful when checking for luster and doubling.

Lighting, lighting, lighting. Multiple angles of metal can reflect lighting into multiple bright areas. This is THE biggest fault of beginners looking at coins with scopes. Look at the W in WE. Is the bottom REALLY brighter than the top? No, it is not! It’s a lighting artifact. Nearly ALL doubling beginners see is the result of lighting artifacts.

Edited December 2, 2023 by VKurtB

[powermad5000]

The farther away I keep my face away from my laptop, the more the E looks like a normal E. I think the shadows are playing a game there. The S looks the same in all the photos and I think there is a small die chip involved with the S.

[Fitzon00]

so what about this 1955 s penny. Not trying to change the subject but since we are talking about lighting. Also I have a scope that connects to my phone with 50x zoom I’m just to shaky of a person to use it all the time. I appreciate all your guys insight. Hope everyone has a good weekend

Edited December 9, 2023 by Fitzon00
Wrong picture

[Coinbuf]

On 12/9/2023 at 4:29 AM, Fitzon00 said:

so what about this 1955 s penny. Not trying to change the subject but since we are talking about lighting. Also I have a scope that connects to my phone with 50x zoom I’m just to shaky of a person to use it all the time. I appreciate all your guys insight. Hope everyone has a good weekend

It is always best to start a new thread when asking about a new/different coin.   Most of your photos are out of focus to see clearly, it could be one of the RPM's listed on Variety Vista, the other explanation is a die chip which was a common issue in the 50's.    Have you attempted to match your coin to one of the five RPM's listed on VV?   Only one of the listed RPM's is considered significant enough to receive an FS designation, and yours does not look like a match from what I can see, maybe a match for RPM2.

Here is a link to the 55-S RPM page at VV if you don't have VV bookmarked.

Variety Vista

[EagleRJO]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:29 AM, Fitzon00 said:

... so what about this 1955 s penny ... Also I have a scope that connects to my phone with 50x zoom I’m just to shaky of a person to use it all the time. 

This is going to be a little lengthy post, but I think it's important considering what you think you are seeing on these coins.  It seems like using the scope combined with the shaky pictures and type of lighting is just sending you down rabbit hole after rabbit hole. When you have that level of magnification you tend to see things on a coin which are simply not important or misleading, and just the lighting or a coin being slightly out of focus with that magnification will fool you into seeing things which just are not there, like the doubling you thought you saw on the 1982-D and 1955-S cents.

Knowledgeable collectors only use that level of magnification at 50x for very specific purposes like counterfeit detection, variety attribution, and numeric grade limiting issues.  So I think you need to start over from scratch and just use a 10x loupe or magnifying glass and hold the coin in your hand by the edges with good lighting and examine the coin as you turn it.  This method is very useful for finding true doubling since you can see the height of that, and other things like looking for luster.

Many collectors, including myself, use a 10x loupe or magnifying glass, which can have built-in lighting to examine coins.  I prefer a self-supporting 10x mag glass with built-in LED lights because when examining larger old dollar coins I can still see a view of the entire coin.  Plus, I can also set that up on a table where I can quickly examine coins when roll hunting.  But I may be partial to using a mag glass as I remember when I was a kid going through old style glass milk jugs full of pocket change with my grandfather at his kitchen table using a beat up old style magnifying glass,

Use what works for you, but I would put away the scope for now and try examining coins with a lower level of magnification at 5x or 10x.  Plus when you do find errors or varieties collectors generally want to be able to see that without a high level of magnification, or more often no magnification at all.  Also, the following link to an article on tools for coin collectors, including what level of magnification to use, may be helpful to you.

https://www.pcgs.com/news/tools-of-a-professional-coin-grader

Edited December 9, 2023 by EagleRJO

[powermad5000]

You seem to be focused on the S mintmark in this case. As for this year of Lincoln Wheat cents, there are many with minor imperfections such as filled numbers or filled mintmarks. I currently own one of these with the S mintmark and one of the 5's is completely filled. Over the years, I have noted this year in particular to have such defects and it does not seem limited to just the San Fransisco Mint. I think there was an issue with the dies produced for that year that were shipped to all the different mint branches.

While there are several RPM varieties for the 1955 S, checking the position of the mintmark on your cent, it is not in the proper position of any known varieties so most likely the anomaly you are seeing on the S on your cent is due to any one of the issues that cause a detail to become filled as was common in this year.

Any of these filled mintmark or numeral examples do not command any premium in the marketplace.

For those reading this thread, I still possess the filled 5 of this cent and was going to sell it because it got a details grade for cleaning, but I now might end up holding on to it to use as an example for future threads.

EDIT : It was scratched, not cleaned.

Edited December 10, 2023 by powermad5000

[powermad5000]

A little more thinking while on the topic of this thread, this reminds me of the 1979 and 1981 S Susan B Anthony dollars Type 1 and Type 2 with the filled S or the clear S.

[Fitzon00]

On 12/9/2023 at 1:04 PM, EagleRJO said:

This is going to be a little lengthy post, but I think it's important considering what you think you are seeing on these coins.  It seems like using the scope combined with the shaky pictures and type of lighting is just sending you down rabbit hole after rabbit hole. When you have that level of magnification you tend to see things on a coin which are simply not important or misleading, and just the lighting or a coin being slightly out of focus with that magnification will fool you into seeing things which just are not there, like the doubling you thought you saw on the 1982-D and 1955-S cents.

Knowledgeable collectors only use that level of magnification at 50x for very specific purposes like counterfeit detection, variety attribution, and numeric grade limiting issues.  So I think you need to start over from scratch and just use a 10x loupe or magnifying glass and hold the coin in your hand by the edges with good lighting and examine the coin as you turn it.  This method is very useful for finding true doubling since you can see the height of that, and other things like looking for luster.

Many collectors, including myself, use a 10x loupe or magnifying glass, which can have built-in lighting to examine coins.  I prefer a self-supporting 10x mag glass with built-in LED lights because when examining larger old dollar coins I can still see a view of the entire coin.  Plus, I can also set that up on a table where I can quickly examine coins when roll hunting.  But I may be partial to using a mag glass as I remember when I was a kid going through old style glass milk jugs full of pocket change with my grandfather at his kitchen table using a beat up old style magnifying glass,

Use what works for you, but I would put away the scope for now and try examining coins with a lower level of magnification at 5x or 10x.  Plus when you do find errors or varieties collectors generally want to be able to see that without a high level of magnification, or more often no magnification at all.  Also, the following link to an article on tools for coin collectors, including what level of magnification to use, may be helpful to you.

https://www.pcgs.com/news/tools-of-a-professional-coin-grader

I appreciate the lengthy response seriously. I’ve only just started collecting alil less than a year. So all the links and insights are helpful and fun so thank you

as for mag and lighting I was in a work shed and using my Snapchat camera app and my phone light. So maybe I need to not use my light on my phone anymore is the issue but is no one gonna mention the 2 right next to the S. When I ran my finger across it I felt a protrusion but could not see it with just my naked eye. I have mult pictures of it zoomed in at different angles so I feel like something is there it’s not the lighting but once again I’m pretty much a virgin at this stuff. Thank you all again for the help I will start a new threat next question I have😇

Edited December 10, 2023 by Fitzon00

[ldhair]

Macro imaging requires no shake to the camera or the coin. Not easy to do if you are trying to hold the coin or camera in your hand. 

[powermad5000]

On 12/9/2023 at 5:43 PM, Fitzon00 said:

but is no one gonna mention the 2 right next to the S

Do you mean 5? If there is a 2 next to the S then we have a huge problem here.

[powermad5000]

While still on this topic, here is the 55 S I was talking about. Coins can be minted with these defects but they gain no premium. And this does not need magnification to be seen. I think using mag either at too high of a level, or using it to "dig" for the smallest anomalies sends people down the rabbit hole.

[Fitzon00]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:32 PM, powermad5000 said:

Do you mean 5? If there is a 2 next to the S then we have a huge problem here.

So you don’t see the 2? Under the five. east of the S.

All different photos

Edited December 10, 2023 by Fitzon00

[EagleRJO]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:43 PM, Fitzon00 said:

I was in a work shed and using my Snapchat camera app and my phone light. So maybe I need to not use my light on my phone anymore is the issue 

Using the phone light may be the issue. Try turning the phone light off and place the coin on a desk or table that has a swing arm or regular desk lamp with a 100W bulb. Then rest your hand on something and take the picture with the phone directly above and close to the coin.

On 12/9/2023 at 6:43 PM, Fitzon00 said:

the 2 right next to the S. When I ran my finger across it I felt a protrusion but could not see it with just my naked eye

The protrusion may be a small die chip or a small piece of copper which got knocked off that or another copper coin and ended up there. 

On 12/10/2023 at 4:12 AM, Fitzon00 said:

So you don’t see the 2? Under the five. east of the S.

That may just be the lighting again or a stain that your mind is projecting as a "2", similar to seeing things in clouds.  There is no way there would be the remnants of a "2" in that area. Again, you need to put away the scope and use a loupe or mag glass.

[Greenstang]

The only possible way for a 2 to be next to the mm is if it was punched into the striking die.   
If this was the case, then it would be on anywhere up to a million cents and  I’m sure it would
have been discovered by now. Also it would be a variety, not an error, big difference.  
What you have is just surface damage.

[EagleRJO]

On 12/10/2023 at 9:42 AM, Greenstang said:

The only possible way for a 2 to be next to the mm is if it was punched into the striking die.

Its not possible since they were using gang punches with the full date at that time.  So there would be remnants of the full date, and it's in the wrong position too.

[Fitzon00]

On 12/10/2023 at 6:01 AM, EagleRJO said:

Using the phone light may be the issue. Try turning the phone light off and place the coin on a desk or table that has a swing arm or regular desk lamp with a 100W bulb. Then rest your hand on something and take the picture with the phone directly above and close to the coin.

The protrusion may be a small die chip or a small piece of copper which got knocked off that or another copper coin and ended up there. 

That may just be the lighting again or a stain that your mind is projecting as a "2", similar to seeing things in clouds.  There is no way there would be the remnants of a "2" in that area. Again, you need to put away the scope and use a loupe or mag glass.

I wasn’t using a scope for those pictures I used my phone camera. 

[Fitzon00]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:42 AM, Greenstang said:

The only possible way for a 2 to be next to the mm is if it was punched into the striking die.   
If this was the case, then it would be on anywhere up to a million cents and  I’m sure it would
have been discovered by now. Also it would be a variety, not an error, big difference.  
What you have is just surface damage.

All I’m saying is it’s definitely there we all see it so it’s not made up lmao But even if it’s just surface damage that formed a perfect 2 that’s still bad and you can feel it with your fingers. 

[powermad5000]

I'm sorry. I cannot accept that the mint faintly punched a numeral 2 onto a 1955 S die under the date and next to the mintmark and struck only one planchet with it.

[EagleRJO]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:00 PM, Fitzon00 said:

I wasn’t using a scope for those pictures I used my phone camera. 

Try getting a photo as I noted of the entire coim that is not zoomed in like the other photos.  And make sure we can zoom in the area in question without the images getting blurry.  Then we will see what is visible from those photos

[Fitzon00]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:39 PM, EagleRJO said:

Try getting a photo as I noted of the entire coim that is not zoomed in like the other photos.  And make sure we can zoom in the area in question without the images getting blurry.  Then we will see what is visible from those photos

 

here you go. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Fitzon00

[EagleRJO]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:38 AM, Fitzon00 said:

here you go. 

That is better, but still a little bury when zooming in on the photo and it's ending up a low resolution image.  Just make sure you are using a 100W desk lamp with the coin stationary on the desk, autofocus is on, you are resting your hand on something, and you are directly over and close to the coin when you take the photo.

Play with that for a while until you get a very sharp photo that you can zoom in on without it getting blurry.  Also get a 10x loupe or magnifying glass and hold the coim by the edges while you turn in to get the full effect of evaluating the coin without relying on photos which can be misleading or limiting sometimes.

About the "2" you see next to the mintmark and partially under the "5", other indicators of a repunched date are not there, and the possibilities of a number for a different year being there from the mint just don't add up due to significant date differences.  So if you are still seeing a "2" using a 10x mag glass then it's likely some type of post-mint damage or monkey business.

[Fitzon00]

On 12/11/2023 at 6:30 AM, EagleRJO said:

That is better, but still a little bury when zooming in on the photo and it's ending up a low resolution image.  Just make sure you are using a 100W desk lamp with the coin stationary on the desk, autofocus is on, you are resting your hand on something, and you are directly over and close to the coin when you take the photo.

Play with that for a while until you get a very sharp photo that you can zoom in on without it getting blurry.  Also get a 10x loupe or magnifying glass and hold the coim by the edges while you turn in to get the full effect of evaluating the coin without relying on photos which can be misleading or limiting sometimes.

About the "2" you see next to the mintmark and partially under the "5", other indicators of a repunched date are not there, and the possibilities of a number for a different year being there from the mint just don't add up due to significant date differences.  So if you are still seeing a "2" using a 10x mag glass then it's likely some type of post-mint damage or monkey business.

I feel like the next thing someone should say is it’s impossible because the moon gravitational pull this time of year doesn’t align with the stars so there couldn’t be a 2 there. I’d actually believe it instead of taking new pictures everyday like everyone is telling me to. I’m not hating I do appreciate it but like penny’s get made on dime planchets. What’s more fat fetched a random two or a penny being made on a completely different metal??!!?