1921 Zerbe Dollar 1 1

[Gummy Bear 09]

Hi, I have a 1921 Morgan Silver dollar that I think might be a Zerbe. Does anyone know if it is one? The fields are very hair lined and there is a small die scratch above the second U of UNUM on the Obverse. It also has a very good strike. 

[Mr.Bill347]

The pictures are too fuzzy to see any hairlines as indicated on Zerbe Morgan dollars. The attached image from PCGS shows what hairlines they are describing for a 1921 Morgan Zerbe.

 

 

The 1921 Zerbe Special Strike Morgan Dollars were struck on special polished dies but on normal circulation type planchets. Zerbe Special Strikes show many hairlines on the devices of the coins compared to circulation strike coins.

[dprince1138]

Very pretty coin.

I do not know, but I did find an article about this type of strike.

https://coinweek.com/1921-s-morgan-dollar-zerbe-proof-a-collectors-guide/

Also, off topic, the Morgan 1921 dollar has a host of variations and die issues.

https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/dollars/morgan-dollars-1878-1921/?page=4

[RWB]

So-called "Zerbe" 1921 dollars are just PLs he happened to pick up at the SF Mint. Nothing special. The stories are just lies invented to boost interest and prices.

[Gummy Bear 09]

Sorry about the pictures. It's hard to show the hairlines on camera.

[Newenglandrarities]

On 11/22/2023 at 7:01 AM, dprince1138 said:

Very pretty coin.

I do not know, but I did find an article about this type of strike.

https://coinweek.com/1921-s-morgan-dollar-zerbe-proof-a-collectors-guide/

Also, off topic, the Morgan 1921 dollar has a host of variations and die issues.

https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/dollars/morgan-dollars-1878-1921/?page=4

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS PERSON!!  Everything he has said is wrong.  Everyone else has given correct advice.  

[Sandon]

   Your 1921 Morgan dollar has already been examined and certified as a regular strike by PCGS, a top tier grading service. The obverse appears to be prooflike (not to be confused with a Zerbe "proof" or special strike), but presumably the reverse was insufficiently mirrored for the coin to be designated prooflike.

   Although regular strike 1921 Morgan dollars with prooflike surfaces on both sides are decidedly scarcer than frosty or one-sided prooflike ones, they are much more common than Zerbe special strikes. NGC has certified 797 1921 regular strike Morgan dollars as prooflike and 160 as deep mirror prooflike. Morgan Dollars (1878-1921) | Coin Census Population Report | NGC (ngccoin.com). PCGS has certified 451 regular strikes as prooflike and 19 as deep mirror prooflike. https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/category/744?l=morgan-dollar-1878-1921&ccid=0&t=3&p=MS&pn=4. Zerbe special strikes have an estimated total population of 100-125 coins, with 55 certified by NGC and 91 by PCGS, which totals likely include coins graded by both services. See 1921 MORGAN ZERBE $1 PF | Coin Explorer | NGC (ngccoin.com), https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1921-1-zerbe-special-strike/7341. One would expect them to be traceable to old collections whose collectors obtained them as special pieces in 1921 and not turn up with no such provenance.

   It is impossible even to make a guess as to the nature of your coin from the small, uncropped photos you have provided of the coin in its holder. It is extremely unlikely that this coin is an unattributed Zerbe "special strike", but grading services have been known to make mistakes, and extremely unlikely things have been known to occur, though rarely. See 1921 Morgan silver dollar authenticated as Zerbe proof | NGC (ngccoin.com).  I recommend that you conduct further research as to the distinguishing characteristics of these coins and study high resolution photos of authenticated Zerbe strikes, such as those on the PCGS Coinfacts page previously linked. If you are convinced after such study that your coin has the exact die markers and other characteristics of a Zerbe strike, I suggest that you show the coin to an experienced and reputable coin dealer, such as a Professional Numismatists Guild member, for an expert opinion as to whether the coin is likely to be a Zerbe strike and, if so, how best to proceed to have PCGS or NGC confirm this finding. See Jeff Garrett: The Art of Rare Coin Submissions | NGC (ngccoin.com), https://www.pngdealers.org/af_memberdirectory.asp.

   

[powermad5000]

From what I know of the 1921 Zerbe strikes, there was 150-200 produced. No proof Morgans were produced for this year, but the Zerbe strikes all look PL due to the special strike dies used, and also had better details than normal circulation strikes of 1921. Using my phone to enlarge the reverse of your coin, the eagles tops of wings appear to be the normal circulation strike details and not the sharp Zerbe details.

While the original submitter possibly didn't pay the extra cost to have the coin looked at for the special strike, they also may have paid the extra cost and the coin didn't qualify. Imho, I think you have a very nice 1921 Morgan normal circulation strike but not a Zerbe.

[Gummy Bear 09]

Okay, thanks for the advice.

[RWB]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:26 PM, powermad5000 said:

From what I know of the 1921 Zerbe strikes, there was 150-200 produced. No proof Morgans were produced for this year, but the Zerbe strikes all look PL due to the special strike dies used, and also had better details than normal circulation strikes of 1921.

All of the above is nonsense. Zerbe was already on the SF Mint's "shxt list" for screwing up the PPIE commemorative coins sales. There were no "special dies" or anything else, and no one knows how many PL 1921 dollars he got to take to a coin club meeting.

The so-called "Chapman proofs" were made in May 1921 at Philadelphia, and although not true proof coins, the curator of the Mint Cabinet affirmed their superior quality. These would actually qualify as "Specimen Coins" through the combination of appearance and documentation.

[J P M]

On 11/23/2023 at 11:00 AM, RWB said:

All of the above is nonsense. Zerbe was already on the SF Mint's "shxt list" for screwing up the PPIE commemorative coins sales. There were no "special dies" or anything else, and no one knows how many PL 1921 dollars he got to take to a coin club meeting.

The so-called "Chapman proofs" were made in May 1921 at Philadelphia, and although not true proof coins, the curator of the Mint Cabinet affirmed their superior quality. These would actually qualify as "Specimen Coins" through the combination of appearance and documentation.

So they gave Zerbe the first day run of coins off new die's that is the only reason why they are nicer looking coins. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by J P M

[RWB]

Nope. He merely picked up some coins in person at the mint...minimal handling. SF Mint officers "gave" Zerbe nothing. All the rest is hype.