What problems do you face as a collectible coin dealer, collector, or investor? 1 1

[RaritiesValue.com]

As many of you may recall, we launched www.RaritiesValue.com a couple of months ago as a free tool to manage your coin collection or rare coin inventory. 

We are now working on accounting software for dealers to help manage sales, expenses, profits and invoices. We hope to finish this module and push it live before the end of the year. 

MY QUESTION TO YOU: What are problems that you face as a rare coin dealer, collector, or investor? What tools can we build to help make your life easier?

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:54 PM, RaritiesValue.com said:

...What tools can we build to help make your life easier?

There are coin establishments that boast they have dedicated coin detectives that can find you the coin you are looking for with a myriad network of contacts at their disposal.  Surely, they jest.  If that were true, I would have had at least one of the three coins I an looking for years ago.

French 20-franc gold roosters:  1910 or 1913 or 1914, PCGS-certified MS-67.

HOW 'BOUT AN APP FOR THAT? 

NO RAW; NO FDC (used by the French to designate all grades within the MS-65 to MS-70 range); and no other TPGS which cannot guarantee a successful cross-grade. 

[GoldFinger1969]

$$$ 

Edited November 6, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[Mike Meenderink]

If you would like to conduct market analysis on a proprietary web site I would remind you that there are TOS for this NGC site and I'm pretty sure using it for you own business gain is NOT ALLOWED> SO...

[VKurtB]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:32 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

If you would like to conduct market analysis on a proprietary web site I would remind you that there are TOS for this NGC site and I'm pretty sure using it for you own business gain is NOT ALLOWED> SO...

Ain’t ya herd? This bees da Innernet n’ everthang bees free on da Innernet. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:54 AM, RaritiesValue.com said:

What are problems that you face as a rare coin dealer, collector, or investor?

Oh man! Do NOT feed me straight lines like that. Most of my "problems" in numismatics show up right here on this site.

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:54 AM, RaritiesValue.com said:

MY QUESTION TO YOU: What are problems that you face as a rare coin dealer, collector, or investor?

If you don't know the answers to these questions already you have no business making anything for coin collectors, investors or dealers. If your company is so low budget that you cannot conduct proper market research and must resort to using a collectors web site to gather data and feedback I would not put much stock in ANY product or service you provide. 

[RaritiesValue.com]

The amount of "angry collectors" on the NGC forum will never cease to amaze me 😂. Perhaps that is a thread for another time

 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:05 PM, RaritiesValue.com said:

The amount of "angry collectors" on the NGC forum will never cease to amaze me 😂. Perhaps that is a thread for another time

 

You with all the wisdom and experience of your 23 posts here have declared a large amount of "angry collectors"..Doesn't that tell you something about you and what you're trying to do here?

Edited November 7, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[RaritiesValue.com]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:08 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

You with all the wisdom and experience of your 23 posts here have declared a large amount of "angry collectors"..Doesn't that tell you something about you?

Thank you for your input on the thread! I pay attention to the helpful comments and the not so helpful. I'm doing my best to learn what I can and improve my project accordingly! I am sorry to have offended you with my post, but I would remind you that commenting on it in the first place is a choice you do not have to make. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:08 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

You with all the wisdom and experience of your 23 posts here have declared a large amount of "angry collectors"..Doesn't that tell you something about you?

Hmm. It does for me. But then again, I saw a new Philadelphia Eagles shirt I might have to buy. It just speaks to me. It has the Eagles logo on the front of a gray t-shirt with lettering in Kelly green reading, “NO ONE LIKES US”. On the back is more Kelly green lettering. “WE DON’T CARE”. Want to understand me? That shirt explains it all. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:11 PM, RaritiesValue.com said:

I would remind you that commenting on it in the first place is a choice you do not have to make. 

Yes I make the choice to call out BS. People like you make the choice to say it. This thread is dead.

[Coinbuf]

I have not tried your software myself as I am comfortable with my current way of tracking my collection and did not relish the thought of the time involved to convert all my info over to a new system.   And before I started my business I was an accounting manager, so I doubt I need too much help in that regard either.   But just a couple of thoughts of the top of my head if you are going to tailor this to collectors.

Make sure your software has the ability to track all the costs.   Beyond the original purchase cost a collector may incur additional costs during the time he/she owns a coin.  Costs like sending to CAC, cost to reholder a coin, costs to have professional photos taken (including all shipping and handling costs).   Many collectors never record all these ancillary costs and do not really know the true full cost of a coin in their collection.   Perhaps a place to record insurance costs, bank vault costs, costs to attend shows or auctions could also be a useful tool for those that want to track the full nut costs of coin ownership.   And of course disposal costs should be included too.   My specialty was cost accounting so my mind just works that way. 

I'm not a dealer so I will not attempt to provide any feedback in that regard.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Coinbuf

[dprince1138]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:05 PM, RaritiesValue.com said:

The amount of "angry collectors" on the NGC forum will never cease to amaze me 😂. Perhaps that is a thread for another time

 

You forgot a few adjectives, e.g., narcissistic, arrogant, intolerant, etc.

[dprince1138]

When building the data modules, I hope that you follow the 1NF and 2NF methodologies.

 

[VKurtB]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:42 PM, dprince1138 said:

You forgot a few adjectives, e.g., narcissistic, arrogant, intolerant, etc.

Oh c'mon. Flattery will get you nowhere.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:11 PM, RaritiesValue.com said:

Thank you for your input on the thread! I pay attention to the helpful comments and the not so helpful. I'm doing my best to learn what I can and improve my project accordingly!  

Are you developing software for purchase or is it freeware ?  Is it in beta testing ?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:54 PM, RaritiesValue.com said:

As many of you may recall, we launched www.RaritiesValue.com a couple of months ago as a free tool to manage your coin collection or rare coin inventory. We are now working on accounting software for dealers to help manage sales, expenses, profits and invoices. We hope to finish this module and push it live before the end of the year.  MY QUESTION TO YOU: What are problems that you face as a rare coin dealer, collector, or investor? What tools can we build to help make your life easier?

I'll tell you what would be a KICK*** feature that might or might not be feasible using today's emerging AI technology.  If the program had that macro feature of Excel which is able to "grab" live data -- Excel can grab it from Bloomberg, from the Web (like stock quotes from Yahoo Finance, etc) -- and input it into a matrix to develop data points of interest to collectors or dealers.  You could be the default program for collectors much like Bloomberg is the default program for fixed-income/bond investors.

Getting prices -- historical and recent -- is something that is very time consuming.  If your feature could grab the data from various websites -- NGC, PCGS, HA archives, Ebay, GC, etc. -- and then download them and maybe "crunch" them in a smart manner (i.e., throw out highest/lowest 2 prices, average, weigh recent sales more, etc.) -- I think that would be a kick- feature. 

Maybe it's not currently (technologically) feasible...maybe you can't access some of the data at certain sites....I don't know, I'm not an expert in this stuff.  But an interactive matrix that could access electronic websites that dealers use and the ones I listed above would really be useful to folks.

I just know that if it had that feature....and it if was able to download HUNDREDS of data points in a second instead of me/others having to punch up lots of searches over multiple websites... that would be one kick*** feature, one I would STRONGLY consider using...and paying for. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[dprince1138]

Excel has extensive command line options.  Create an excel object and load or create a file.  I have automated many data streams importing and exporting to excel.

Many platforms have API (JSON, SOAP, XML, HTTP) functionality   I have automated many data streams from FB, USPS, client databases, etc.

The only limitation is the ability to access data from platforms that do not have shared access.

If you would like to ask about some of this functionality, I would be glad to discuss it with you.

My last job was with Results Driven Marketing.  I worked there for 8 years.  They mined data to provide best practice customer purchase profiles.

Edited November 7, 2023 by dprince1138

[VKurtB]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:53 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'll tell you what would be a KICK*** feature that might or might not be feasible using today's emerging AI technology.  If the program had that macro feature of Excel which is able to "grab" live data -- Excel can grab it from Bloomberg, from the Web (like stock quotes from Yahoo Finance, etc) -- and input it into a matrix to develop data points of interest to collectors or dealers.  You could be the default program for collectors much like Bloomberg is the default program for fixed-income/bond investors.

Getting prices -- historical and recent -- is something that is very time consuming.  If your feature could grab the data from various websites -- NGC, PCGS, HA archives, Ebay, GC, etc. -- and then download them and maybe "crunch" them in a smart manner (i.e., throw out highest/lowest 2 prices, average, weigh recent sales more, etc.) -- I think that would be a kick- feature. 

Maybe it's not currently (technologically) feasible...maybe you can't access some of the data at certain sites....I don't know, I'm not an expert in this stuff.  But an interactive matrix that could access electronic websites that dealers use and the ones I listed above would really be useful to folks.

I just know that if it had that feature....and it if was able to download HUNDREDS of data points in a second instead of me/others having to punch up lots of searches over multiple websites... that would be one kick- feature, one I would STRONGLY consider using...and paying for. 

Sounds like Olympic diving scoring to me.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

If you want to do something REALLY meaningful in the hobby, create a pricing database for Civil War Tokens by variety.  Pull in scripts that would bring-in the auction data from several sources and aggregate on a monthly/quarterly basis.  

I love CWTs, but I had to turn away from them because I cannot price them well.  The resources for CWT pricing are either outdated, or non-existent.  Furthermore, auction results are all over the place.  I am not an investor, but it is not lost on me that someone will likely have to sell my collection.  If I struggle to understand CWT pricing, my wife and kids have zero chance after I am gone.

I am not the only person that feels this way about CWT pricing and the lack of resources, but this would still be a niche (but a very undeserved niche).  The "big tent" hobby software around organizing your collection has already been done several times over.  You are going to have a tougher time building solutions that solve needs for all of numismatics.  Just my .

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/7/2023 at 1:58 AM, VKurtB said:

Sounds like Olympic diving scoring to me.

I'm just saying it would be very helpful.  No idea if it is technologically possible. 

Suppose I wanted to know the price or value on a common Saint or Morgan.  Right now, I punch up 1 or 2 sites and get the most recent sales or current offers.  Instead, imagine a program that was able to input the necessary search fields at the HA Archives....get a few dozen sales going back 2 years....weight the most recent, delete an outlier or one with CAC.....yes, complicated but isn't that what AI is suppose to be able to do, thousands of computations a second ?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/7/2023 at 12:33 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

If you want to do something REALLY meaningful in the hobby, create a pricing database for Civil War Tokens by variety.  Pull in scripts that would bring-in the auction data from several sources and aggregate on a monthly/quarterly basis.

We have the database for that -- and all the coins.  It's just a question of AGGREGATING it and then giving a realistic number/approximation to the question "what is the most recent price/value" ?

Isn't that what the cloud stocks and "data aggregators" are supposed to do ?  Grab data...crunch it.  We have dozens/hundreds of data points...it's mostly in 5-6 websites including this and ATS...HA Archives, GC, SB, ebay, not sure you need Etsy and/or Craiglist.  Maybe there are electronic ECNs used dealer-to-dealer but that might be from the 1980's and 1990's pre-internet.

Grab the data for a particular coin...filter out or include any variable like a "+" or CAC designation if present....create an algorithim to weight a few recent sales vs. sales 6 months ago....vs. sales 1-2 years ago...throw out the outliers....etc...etc.  

This is what AI was created for, hopefully it's part of our arsenal in a few years.

[ldhair]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:47 PM, Coinbuf said:

Make sure your software has the ability to track all the costs.   Beyond the original purchase cost a collector may incur additional costs during the time he/she owns a coin.  Costs like sending to CAC, cost to reholder a coin, costs to have professional photos taken (including all shipping and handling costs).   Many collectors never record all these ancillary costs and do not really know the true full cost of a coin in their collection.   Perhaps a place to record insurance costs, bank vault costs, costs to attend shows or auctions could also be a useful tool for those that want to track the full nut costs of coin ownership.   And of course disposal costs should be included too.   My specialty was cost accounting so my mind just works that way. 

You bring up a good point and something I'm dealing with right now. I'm building a sheet for coins I'm selling just to come up with an honest cost basis for tax reasons. It's not easy. It's hard to figure what portion of some cost to attach to each coin and what the IRS will allow. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:37 PM, ldhair said:

You bring up a good point and something I'm dealing with right now. I'm building a sheet for coins I'm selling just to come up with an honest cost basis for tax reasons. It's not easy. It's hard to figure what portion of some cost to attach to each coin and what the IRS will allow. 

I wish you all the best in that project. 

[RaritiesValue.com]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:47 PM, Coinbuf said:

I have not tried your software myself as I am comfortable with my current way of tracking my collection and did not relish the thought of the time involved to convert all my info over to a new system.   And before I started my business I was an accounting manager, so I doubt I need too much help in that regard either.   But just a couple of thoughts of the top of my head if you are going to tailor this to collectors.

Make sure your software has the ability to track all the costs.   Beyond the original purchase cost a collector may incur additional costs during the time he/she owns a coin.  Costs like sending to CAC, cost to reholder a coin, costs to have professional photos taken (including all shipping and handling costs).   Many collectors never record all these ancillary costs and do not really know the true full cost of a coin in their collection.   Perhaps a place to record insurance costs, bank vault costs, costs to attend shows or auctions could also be a useful tool for those that want to track the full nut costs of coin ownership.   And of course disposal costs should be included too.   My specialty was cost accounting so my mind just works that way. 

I'm not a dealer so I will not attempt to provide any feedback in that regard.

Thank you for this comment. We are building out the accounting piece at the moment, as well as ways to import your collection easier (such as from a spreadsheet). We will certainly account for other expenses not solely related to the actual coin itself. I would love to build our system out to the point where someday you might find it useful! 

[RaritiesValue.com]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:46 PM, dprince1138 said:

When building the data modules, I hope that you follow the 1NF and 2NF methodologies.

 

Thank you for the suggestion! Will run this by the developer at some point. 

[RaritiesValue.com]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:53 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'll tell you what would be a KICK*** feature that might or might not be feasible using today's emerging AI technology.  If the program had that macro feature of Excel which is able to "grab" live data -- Excel can grab it from Bloomberg, from the Web (like stock quotes from Yahoo Finance, etc) -- and input it into a matrix to develop data points of interest to collectors or dealers.  You could be the default program for collectors much like Bloomberg is the default program for fixed-income/bond investors.

Getting prices -- historical and recent -- is something that is very time consuming.  If your feature could grab the data from various websites -- NGC, PCGS, HA archives, Ebay, GC, etc. -- and then download them and maybe "crunch" them in a smart manner (i.e., throw out highest/lowest 2 prices, average, weigh recent sales more, etc.) -- I think that would be a kick- feature. 

Maybe it's not currently (technologically) feasible...maybe you can't access some of the data at certain sites....I don't know, I'm not an expert in this stuff.  But an interactive matrix that could access electronic websites that dealers use and the ones I listed above would really be useful to folks.

I just know that if it had that feature....and it if was able to download HUNDREDS of data points in a second instead of me/others having to punch up lots of searches over multiple websites... that would be one kick*** feature, one I would STRONGLY consider using...and paying for. 

Hi, thanks for the comment!

Right now we are in our free beta. Our plan is to keep the beta free for inventory management and other features as they relate to coin collectors. For coin dealers, we plan to build additional advanced features like expense and sales accounting. 

I think AI will play a large role in how we build out our platform to come. I think it has great potential for price tracking and analysis! We would like to eventually crack pricing for rare coins, but we have historically struggled to form data partnerships as we are small and provide little value to large companies. Some sales data is retrievable but most is proprietary to the auction house/sales platform. I think as we grow this will change! 

I think what you are talking about with pricing is certainly feasible! I would love to explore this more as our resources and user base grows! Thank you very much, and I hope you have gotten the change to test out our inventory tracking beta!

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/13/2023 at 4:31 PM, RaritiesValue.com said:

I think what you are talking about with pricing is certainly feasible! I would love to explore this more as our resources and user base grows! Thank you very much, and I hope you have gotten the change to test out our inventory tracking beta!

I will once I get a chance....do you know anything about grabbing data from a well-known site like Ebay, is that feasible ?  I think I see some sales for coins there show up in the PCGS or NGC recent sales pages when you punch up various coins.

You might want to check out HA and GC, since they are probably the most accurate recent sales providers.

Edited November 15, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:47 PM, Coinbuf said:

Make sure your software has the ability to track all the costs.   Beyond the original purchase cost a collector may incur additional costs during the time he/she owns a coin.  Costs like sending to CAC, cost to reholder a coin, costs to have professional photos taken (including all shipping and handling costs).   Many collectors never record all these ancillary costs and do not really know the true full cost of a coin in their collection.   Perhaps a place to record insurance costs, bank vault costs, costs to attend shows or auctions could also be a useful tool for those that want to track the full nut costs of coin ownership.   And of course disposal costs should be included too.   My specialty was cost accounting so my mind just works that way. 

This is an outstanding post.  I once brought up what you refer to as "ancillary costs," but coin collecting runs the gamut between the hobbyist who is simply content with what happens to strike his fancy to the Great Blue Whales who amass once-in-a-lifetime collections.  Our frequent flyer globe trotting rough rider claims any acquisitions are serendipitous and incidental to his travels.