IMEX Nashville Show Report 0

[VKurtB]

I had the opportunity to work with Col. Steve Ellsworth (retd.) in running the IMEX Show in Nashville this past weekend. I signed up to volunteer and ended up as one of the 6 people running the show. There was the Colonel, fellow past ANA President Gary Adkins, Brett Irick of Michigan, the ANA Exhibit Judging Instructor, Mike Copin of New Jersey (last of VERY many locales), the Security specialist whose name escapes me, and Yours Truly, of Arab, Alabama. We worked our kiesters off, at least 12 hours per day, but we wanted a successful show and we GOT ONE!

The format was unusual. A Thursday Dealer Only Day, two public days Friday, and Saturday, followed by another Dealer Only Day on Sunday. Colonel Steve hooked me up with a gorgeous room at the Margaritaville Hotel a half block away. It was a last minute comp room he got for selling a certain number of rooms there.

The show felt highly successful, financial accounting pending, and the Friday and Saturday crowds were VERY different. Friday was Boomers Galore, serious collectors. Saturday was younger, more families, more women. One in particular had sass, class, and a really nice, umm, face. Alas, neither of us was available. Hey, I can look! 

All the top larger dealers were there, and the plan is to attract more smaller ones next time. The food concessions were reasonable to kind of cheap, but delish. It was no surprise, if you know Ellsworth, that it was a bourse show with little else, THIS TIME. The plan is to do this again next year, perhaps at another venue in the greater Nashville area, and perhaps with more side events. Steve Forbes and I got a chance to briefly rap about Keynesian vs. Monetarist economics, and he lavishly personally autographed his book, Inflation, for me,

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by VKurtB

[J P M]

Sounds like a good show. Wish I could have been there.

[Coinbuf]

On 10/31/2023 at 5:15 PM, J P M said:

Sounds like a good show. Wish I could have been there.

Read some of the reviews from those not invested in the show and you might be glad you missed it.

[zadok]

On 10/31/2023 at 11:55 PM, Coinbuf said:

Read some of the reviews from those not invested in the show and you might be glad you missed it.

...yeppers....

[VKurtB]

On 10/31/2023 at 10:55 PM, Coinbuf said:

Read some of the reviews from those not invested in the show and you might be glad you missed it.

Like where?

[RWB]

Was anything new or different attempted? Something to make the event more interesting or appealing to a wider range of people?

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

ATS even the nicest reviews were mixed.  It seems like both dealers and show-goers were frustrated at times.  I was not there... so I really can't say how it was, but the reports (in aggregate) were not glowing.

Edited November 1, 2023 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[zadok]

On 11/1/2023 at 1:43 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

ATS even the nicest reviews were mixed.  It seems like both dealers and show-goers were frustrated at times.  I was not there... so I really can't say how it was, but the reports (in aggregate) were not glowing.

...ur being too nice...frustration just doesnt cover the feelings, there was very little glowing....

[VKurtB]

On 11/1/2023 at 11:47 AM, RWB said:

Was anything new or different attempted? Something to make the event more interesting or appealing to a wider range of people?

Both Ellsworth AND Adkins believe the shows are primarily for dealer to dealer wholesale business, and the retail trade is by faaaaaaar, secondary, almost unimportant. The show format reflected that belief. 

[Coinbuf]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:54 AM, zadok said:

...ur being too nice...frustration just doesnt cover the feelings, there was very little glowing....

Only Kurt is glowing. 

[zadok]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:55 PM, Coinbuf said:

Only Kurt is glowing. 

...well he lived too close to 3-mile island for a long time....

[VKurtB]

I never got to shop the bourse for even a minute. 48 hours worked in 4 days. I never understood the “trading room” concept until I saw that the bourse space wasn’t even BEGUN to be set up until noon the SECOND DAY. Steve and Gary were in agreement that the purpose of the show was “dealer to dealer”. They don’t care much about retail, and it was obvious. The Music City Center was VERY tight about signage. The aluminum industry was in Hall D and none of their signage was near our hall.

Edited November 2, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 11/1/2023 at 8:22 PM, VKurtB said:

I never got to shop the bourse for even a minute. 48 hours worked in 4 days. I never understood the “trading room” concept until I saw that the bourse space wasn’t even BEGUN to be set up until noon the SECOND DAY. Steve and Gary were in agreement that the purpose of the show was “dealer to dealer”. They don’t care much about retail, and it was obvious. The Music City Center was VERY tight about signage. The aluminum industry was in Hall D and none of their signage was near our hall.

...and therein lies the fly in the ointment...it was never intended to be anything bout collectors but was presented that way originally, for the betterment of the hobby to bring more collecting exposure to the central part of the US... dealers can deal with dealers anywhere even just online n accomplish the same results...it was clearly evident that the show was not designed to serve the collecting portion of the hobby nor the dealers that prefer to deal with collectors...im still trying to figure out the "international" part of the show, there was none, i now understand why the actual international dealers decided to take a pass...the clouds on the horizon do not bode well for the future of this endeavor....

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 7:50 AM, zadok said:

...and therein lies the fly in the ointment...it was never intended to be anything bout collectors but was presented that way originally, for the betterment of the hobby to bring more collecting exposure to the central part of the US... dealers can deal with dealers anywhere even just online n accomplish the same results...it was clearly evident that the show was not designed to serve the collecting portion of the hobby nor the dealers that prefer to deal with collectors...im still trying to figure out the "international" part of the show, there was none, i now understand why the actual international dealers decided to take a pass...the clouds on the horizon do not bode well for the future of this endeavor....

Any show using words like “International” or “collector”, and certainly if it uses BOTH, really should have Allen Berman at a table. This did not. The list of dealers, very few of whom go to shows to do retail business, read like a Who’s Who of Friends of Steve and Gary. What ELSE do Steve and Gary have in common? They are the second and third most recent Past Presidents of the ANA, who ran their four years of leadership based on a “the dealers are the be all and end all of the hobby” platform. They also spent four years butting heads with the ANA staff. Both tried to eliminate collector exhibits. 
 

I just got off of a Zoom call of the ANA’s Membership and Outreach Committee. Another of our volunteers at IMEX is also on that committee - Richard Josefiak, of Georgia, formerly Alabama. The way he put it was this. “This was NOT a collector’s show, and it wasn’t designed to be. It was designed to be an upper crust show, and it was.” PCGS, NGC, CAC, ANACS, and ICG were ALL THERE. The United States Mint was there. Every “prime real estate” ANA show dealer was there. Heritage, Stacks Bowers, and Legend Auctions were all there. Who wasn’t there? The guys who stick around til the end of major shows, the guys with booths at the sides and back of the hall. This one was not adequately marketed to them. They were in South Carolina. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:48 PM, VKurtB said:

Any show using words like “International” or “collector”, and certainly if it uses BOTH, really should have Allen Berman at a table. This did not. The list of dealers, very few of whom go to shows to do retail business, read like a Who’s Who of Friends of Steve and Gary. What ELSE do Steve and Gary have in common? They are the second and third most recent Past Presidents of the ANA, who ran their four years of leadership based on a “the dealers are the be all and end all of the hobby” platform. They also spent four years butting heads with the ANA staff. Both tried to eliminate collector exhibits. 
 

I just got off of a Zoom call of the ANA’s Membership and Outreach Committee. Another of our volunteers at IMEX is also on that committee - Richard Josefiak, of Georgia, formerly Alabama. The way he put it was this. “This was NOT a collector’s show, and it wasn’t designed to be. It was designed to be an upper crust show, and it was.” PCGS, NGC, CAC, ANACS, and ICG were ALL THERE. The United States Mint was there. Every “prime real estate” ANA show dealer was there. Heritage, Stacks Bowers, and Legend Auctions were all there. Who wasn’t there? The guys who stick around til the end of major shows, the guys with booths at the sides and back of the hall. This one was not adequately marketed to them. They were in South Carolina. 

...guess time will tell, can measure number of dealers next year versus this year....

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:07 PM, zadok said:

...guess time will tell, can measure number of dealers next year versus this year....

Not going up against the South Carolina show will be just one key. That is a very collector focused show, like either of the Dalton, GA shows or the Chattanooga show. The IMEX was trying to be the créme de la créme shaved off ANA show dealers. And trust me, most of those dealers are GONE FROM MAJOR SHOWS before the public shows up. Nearly NO DEALERS had "book stock", and relatively few had "2x2 box stock". They were in South Carolina. These were the types of dealers who specialize in 4 and 5-figure coins. There was a Friday Night reception that was ONLY OPEN TO DEALERS. The dealer focus was undeniable and palpable. They were not even the right dealers for me, and I'm fairly advanced. These were the guys whose retail trade comes from long term "want lists", not walk-ups.

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

So the public wasn't allowed in and retail collectors (like most of us) also weren't allowed ?  Just dealers who bought a table to do dealer-to-dealer stuff ?

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 11/3/2023 at 2:50 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

So the public wasn't allowed in and retail collectors (like most of us) also weren't allowed ?  Just dealers who bought a table to do dealer-to-dealer stuff ?

The show was open to the public Friday and Saturday.

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 5:12 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

The show was open to the public Friday and Saturday.

But the Friday night reception and event with Steve Forbes was NOT open to the public. I wasn’t even told it existed until the conference center staff started setting it up. I blame Adkins primarily. He just LOVES exclusivity and rubbing elbows with bigwigs. Ellsworth was more down to earth.

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 7:50 AM, zadok said:

dealers can deal with dealers anywhere even just online n accomplish the same results.

Dealers do not seem to agree. Talk to most larger upscale dealers. They’ll tell you that retail collectors are just a little icing on the cake. The cake itself is, and ALWAYS HAS BEEN, dealer to dealer business. That New Jersey whiner ATS has zero concept of what big shows are like and what and who they’re for. IMEX was just more upfront about it.

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Out of one side of the mouth - I hear perpetual droning about the importance of shows.  How shows are integral to being a "numismatist", and how shows ARE the hobby while online acquisitions and friendships are not.  

Out of the other side of the mouth- I hear that shows are dealer focused and collectors are merely icing on the cake.  

 

My take -I like shows, but shows are now a "nice to have" for me.  I do enjoy looking at lots of coins in one place.  However, my social circle has nothing to do with shows (and very little to do with coins).  I am not into shows for the "status" and they are certainly not the source of my power.  I go to shows for one thing - to look at (and buy) coins.  I make most of my connections over the internet, my local club and EAC.  

I buy most of my coins over the internet at auctions or from dealer sites, and with a return privilege, I would rather buy online.  True, I don't get to see the coin in-hand (and I agree that is best), but I get to really take my time price things out, make offers... all of this without a crowd building behind me or a dealer that wants to push me into the sale.  I move at my own pace from the comfort of my chair.  No travel, no lodging, no headache...and no issues finding the coins I need from home.

Maybe this makes me NOT part of the hobby, or NOT important... and I really don't care.  I collect coins, because I like coins.  The better I get with coins, the less I really "need" shows.  If there was never another coin show, my collecting would not be greatly impacted at all.

Edited November 3, 2023 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:14 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

Out of one side of the mouth - I hear perpetual droning about the importance of shows.  How shows are integral to being a "numismatist", and how shows ARE the hobby while online acquisitions and friendships are not.  

Out of the other side of the mouth- I hear that shows are dealer focused and collectors are merely icing on the cake.  

 

My take -I like shows, but shows are now a "nice to have" for me.  I do enjoy looking at lots of coins in one place.  However, my social circle has nothing to do with shows (and very little to do with coins).  I am not into shows for the "status" and they are certainly not the source of my power.  I go to shows for one thing - to look at (and buy) coins.  I make most of my connections over the internet, my local club and EAC.  

I buy most of my coins over the internet at auctions or from dealer sites, and with a return privilege, I would rather buy online.  True, I don't get to see the coin in-hand (and I agree that is best), but I get to really take my time price things out, make offers... all of this without a crowd building behind me or a dealer that wants to push me into the sale.  I move at my own pace from the comfort of my chair.  No travel, no lodging, no headache...and no issues finding the coins I need from home.

Maybe this makes me NOT part of the hobby, or NOT important... and I really don't care.  I collect coins, because I like coins.  The better I get with coins, the less I really "need" shows.  If there was never another coin show, my collecting would not be greatly impacted at all.

There are shows and then there are shows. This IMEX show was a commercial venture that was almost 100% bourse. That’s NOT what I go to shows for. Yes, I’m the oddity in the picture; I know that. I seldom buy ANYTHING at large U.S. shows. I go to big shows to LEARN MORE mostly. I go to talks. Aside from Forbes pontificating about hard money, there were none at IMEX. I go to large shows to exhibit and judge exhibits. There were none at IMEX. I go to large shows to attend subject matter club meetings (EAC, Elongates, LSCC). None of those at IMEX. I go to large shows to participate in committee and board meetings for the ANA. None of those at IMEX. So yeah, IMEX is NOT anything I would normally go to, EXCEPT I want to see something better created in this region.

I buy almost exclusively at one type of venue - public auctions where I can evaluate the coins myself. Or lately, at non-standard shows, like at London and Berlin. And I don’t buy SQUAT online.

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

My approach is.... I like to collect coins.  I don't care about the avenue in which I acquire.  I believe that relationships, and even friendships can be made online 100% (without ever meeting face to face).  I have friends and mentors in this hobby, both virtual and in-person.  I know that I can find coins I love at deals I love by sourcing online (probably 90% of my collection has been purchased online).  Both online and in-person coin buying have their advantages/disadvantages.  Sometimes, I even take a hybrid approach and source the coin online, but meet that dealer at a show for a cash deal.  This works for me.  It's convenient.  And, while I will never be important in the hobby, I have built a small collection that I really enjoy, and IMO I think my coins are relatively nice.

Your approach is different.  You live in the show world.  It is your social circle, and through this... your acquisition model.  This is certainly a proven, successful way to source for coins.  In fairness, your approach may yield you looks at coins that I would never see - a huge advantage.  But the downside is the cost of acquisition must also absorb T&E budget (this may be balanced-out by the deals you get or just the sheer enjoyment you have).

My point is - we approach this hobby differently.  Your way has been very successful for you, and I like that for you.  My way has been successful for me... but you hate my method, and knock it at every turn.  Your OP was glowing to perpetuate your own sense of ideals, and only later in the thread do you walk it back.  Again, I am not saying that shows are a wrong approach, but... they a no longer the sole vehicle for sourcing coins, and internet sourcing will continue to increase.  Does this hurt shows, sure (and I get why show promoters and the ANA hate that)...There will always be a place for shows, because people (myself included) do enjoy walking the bourse looking at millions of dollars in coins.  But to continue to discredit the online element as non-numismatic or "not the hobby" is simply incorrect.

Edited November 3, 2023 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:56 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

My approach is.... I like to collect coins.  I don't care about the avenue in which I acquire.  I believe that relationships, and even friendships can be made online 100% (without ever meeting face to face).  I have friends and mentors in this hobby, both virtual and in-person.  I know that I can find coins I love at deals I love by sourcing online (probably 90% of my collection has been purchased online).  Both online and in-person coin buying have their advantages/disadvantages.  Sometimes, I even take a hybrid approach and source the coin online, but meet that dealer at a show for a cash deal.  This works for me.  It's convenient.  And, while I will never be important in the hobby, I have built a small collection that I really enjoy, and IMO I think my coins are relatively nice.

Your approach is different.  You live in the show world.  It is your social circle, and through this... you acquisition model.  This is certainly a proven, successful way to source for coins.  In fairness, your approach may yield you looks at coins that I would never see - a huge advantage.  But the downside is the cost of acquisition must also absorb T&E budget (this may be balanced-out by the deals you get or just the sheer enjoyment you have).

My point is - we approach this hobby differently.  Your way has been very successful for you, and I like that for you.  My way has been successful for me... but you hate my method, and knock it at every turn.  Your OP was glowing to perpetuate your own sense of ideals, and only later in the thread do you walk it back.  Again, I am not saying that shows are a wrong approach, but... they a no longer the sole vehicle for sourcing coins, and internet sourcing will continue to increase.  Does this hurt shows, sure (and I get why show promoters and the ANA hate that)...There will always be a place for shows, because people (myself included) do enjoy walking the bourse looking at millions of dollars in coins.  But to continue to discredit the online element as non-numismatic or "not the hobby" is simply incorrect.

The problem I have with internet collecting is that it is a “pull” medium. You have to search and look for a particular thing, dealer, coin, or whatever. Doing a live auction or a show is a “push” medium. You browse or scan the material and items can literally find YOU. That’s the way I roll and I find dealing with shipping back and forth worse than walking over shattered glass. I would literally rather drive 8 hours to an auction than ship things out. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[leeg]

Very nice report!

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 11/3/2023 at 1:04 PM, VKurtB said:

The problem I have with internet collecting is that it is a “pull” medium. You have to search and look for a particular thing, dealer, coin, or whatever. Doing a live auction or a show is a “push” medium. You browse or scan the material and items can literally find YOU. That’s the way I roll and I find dealing with shipping back and forth worse than walking over shattered glass. I would literally rather drive 8 hours to an auction than ship things out. 

All points here are valid!  Especially the shipping... watching the tracking can be a real gut twister. 100%.

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 4:46 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

All points here are valid!  Especially the shipping... watching the tracking can be a real gut twister. 100%.

It didn’t take me many shipping snafus to realize my cardiologist wanted me to swear off doing business by mail. I listen to my doctors. One told me to retire. Another told me to get to the south (stop shoveling snow). My current PCP recommended PT to gain strength and balance. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 12:44 PM, leeg said:

Very nice report!

Thanks, Leeg. That means a lot coming from you. I mean it.

[Fenntucky Mike]

I just read in a Coin World article on IMEX, it said in the article that there was a marathon race held in Nashville on the same Saturday as IMEX, making access difficult and possibly hurting attendance that day. There are always events going on in a city but nothing brings a big city to a screeching halt like a marathon, or any event when they are blocking off half the roads in the city.