What happened to this coin? Do you know how to recognize certain types of common damage done to coins? Take the Poll 2 2

[Mike Meenderink]

Look at the coin below carefully. Next go to the attached poll to choose your answer to what happened to the coin.. If you would like to explain your choice of answer you may do so on the post page here. I will reveal the answer after at least 10 votes have been placed for the answer. Goodluck.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[Henri Charriere]

There could be one, or a plausible combination of three or more causes resulting in this type of PMD.

My favorite, unsupported by a smidgen of evidence, is recovery from the railroad mail car fire that destroyed much of the valuable payload as engineered by the d'Autremont Brothers outside tunnel 13 near Siskiyou, Oregon in 1903, which resulted in a three-continent search by postal inspectors and very long prison sentences for the men involved. The beginnings, if not the birth, of Forensic Science has been attributed to the investigative techniques developed over the course of an intensive investigation of this crime.

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/15/2023 at 12:48 PM, Henri Charriere said:

There could be one, or a plausible combination of three or more causes resulting in this type of PMD.

My favorite, unsupported by a smidgen of evidence, is recovery from the railroad mail car fire that destroyed much of the valuable payload as engineered by the d'Autremont Brothers outside tunnel 13 near Siskiyou, Oregon in 1903, which resulted in a three-continent search by postal inspectors and very long prison sentences for the men involved. The beginnings, if not the birth, of Forensic Science has been attributed to the investigative techniques developed over the course of an intensive investigation of this crime.

Henri please vote your conscience and participate in the poll.

[VKurtB]

4) It doesn't matter. It's a hot mess regardless. I don't CARE what causes damage. I just need to know it's there.

[ldhair]

I can think of how all three answers could be possible and maybe add a few. It's also possible that the coin is not even real. 

 

[Mike Meenderink]

The damage on this REAL coin is specific and easily identified as the root PMD>  come on guys...

[Sandon]

   I think that the most likely answer is that this 1885 Liberty nickel has been burned in a fire but agree with the others that the cause of this severe damage isn't important. Unless you were there when it occurred, it isn't possible to know for sure.

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/15/2023 at 4:25 PM, Sandon said:

   I think that the most likely answer is that this 1885 Liberty nickel has been burned in a fire but agree with the others that the cause of this severe damage isn't important. Unless you were there when it occurred, it isn't possible to know for sure.

Please participate in the poll and vote your conscience. Thanks Sandon. Yes learning what different types of damage looks like is important since this coin SOLD for $200.00 recently. Like today. Yes you can learn what happened to a coin if you were not there. People do it everyday its called grading.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/15/2023 at 1:54 PM, VKurtB said:

4) It doesn't matter. It's a hot mess regardless. I don't CARE what causes damage. I just need to know it's there.

You will be our official hot mess certified judge to weed out the hot messes. Excellent job we couldn't do this with out you Kurt.

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/15/2023 at 3:14 PM, ldhair said:

I can think of how all three answers could be possible and maybe add a few. It's also possible that the coin is not even real. 

 

I agree but there are tell tale indications that differentiate this damage from the combined damage you speak of. When determining this we look at the root PMD, the initial damage that caused the coin to begin to appear the way it does. The differing surface conditions obv /rev and the differing coloring of those surfaces is a very big clue.

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/15/2023 at 3:14 PM, ldhair said:

I can think of how all three answers could be possible and maybe add a few. It's also possible that the coin is not even real. 

 

Please participate in the poll and vote your conscience thanks Id.

[Sandon]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:32 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

this coin SOLD for $200.00 recently. Like today.

    I'm not surprised, as the 1885 Liberty nickel is a key date, and some people will overpay for such a piece with a clear date to fill the slots in their albums. The NGC Price Guide lists this issue at $235 in "PrAg". This one has VG details based on the obverse, although the reverse could be called "AG", in this case meaning "About Gone." It's likely genuine, based upon the date numerals and other recognizable features being correct, which generally isn't the case for a contemporary counterfeit.  I don't know why a counterfeiter of numismatic items would create something that looks like this. Compare it to the example I bought back in 1999, now NGC graded XF 45.

 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/15/2023 at 5:01 PM, Sandon said:

    I'm not surprised, as the 1885 Liberty nickel is a key date, and some people will overpay for such a piece with a clear date to fill the slots in their albums. The NGC Price Guide lists this issue at $235 in "PrAg". This one has VG details based on the obverse, although the reverse could be called "AG", in this case meaning "About Gone." It's likely genuine, based upon the date numerals and other recognizable features being correct, which generally isn't the case for a contemporary counterfeit.  I don't know why a counterfeiter of numismatic items would create something that looks like this. Compare it to the example I bought back in 1999, now NGC graded XF 45.

 

Yes I know that it is a key date coin. But did you know people are now collecting DAMAGE coins? Specifically certain types of damage coins. This one happens to be of particular value because its damage is desirable to collectors much like "shipwreck effect" damaged coins. Some damage is "romantic" and begets love other damage is repulsive and repels love. Go figure. Coins the downfall of logic. 

[VKurtB]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:20 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Yes I know that it is a key date coin. But did you know people are now collecting DAMAGE coins? Specifically certain types of damage coins. This one happens to be of particular value because its damage is desirable to collectors much like "shipwreck effect" damaged coins. Some damage is "romantic" and begets love other damage is repulsive and repels love. Go figure. Coins the downfall of logic. 

I am being completely genuine when I write that I SIMPLY DO NOT CARE what caused the damage. For me, it's a binary world - if it has damage, it is literally worth NOTHING to me. There are no "net grades" nor "net values" in my collecting world. If it's damaged, its value to me is ZERO. End of story. Exception: if I want to illustrate something for a talk. Such coins will never be a part of any "regular" collection of mine.

Edited October 16, 2023 by VKurtB

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/15/2023 at 5:24 PM, VKurtB said:

I am being completely genuine when I write that I SIMPLY DO NOT CARE what caused the damage. For me, it's a binary world - if it has damage, it is literally worth NOTHING to me. There are no "net grades" nor "net values" in my collecting world. If it's damaged, its value to me is ZERO. End of story. Exception: if I want to illustrate something for a talk. Such coins will never be a part of any "regular" collection of mine.

Wonderful

[VKurtB]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:47 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

I agree but there are tell tale indications that differentiate this damage from the combined damage you speak of. When determining this we look at the root PMD, the initial damage that caused the coin to begin to appear the way it does. The differing surface conditions obv /rev and the differing coloring of those surfaces is a very big clue.

I do remember reading about a pretty nice set of 5-cent pieces being caught in a fire, so that militates for a "hot time in the old town" that night. The difference between the obverse and reverse also argues for a fire, due to differential access to oxygen.

Edited October 16, 2023 by VKurtB

[Mike Meenderink]

@VKurtBI however prefer to be educated on things that may lead me to believe a coin is damaged. This is only possible by understanding some of the processes which damage the coins and the overall end result of that damage. Many coins are dug up, brought from the bottom of the sea, bent, corroded some are certified some are authenticated...some not... yet there is still a wide market for these patinaed coins. Believe it or not. So knowing what you are looking at no matter what is best.

[VKurtB]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:33 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

@VKurtBI however prefer to be educated on things that may lead me to believe a coin is damaged. This is only possible by understanding some of the processes which damage the coins and the overall end result of that damage. Many coins are dug up, brought from the bottom of the sea, bent, corroded some are certified some are authenticated...some not... yet there is still a wide market for these patinaed coins. Believe it or not. So knowing what you are looking at no matter what is best.

I do my own "science experiments" on cheap coins, and those provide me all the information I need. I am aware that any collectors have differing standards for what they will include in their sets. Since I don't SELL coins, what others want is of no interest to me.

Edited October 16, 2023 by VKurtB

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/15/2023 at 5:31 PM, VKurtB said:

I do remember reading about a pretty nice set of 5-cent pieces being caught in a fire, so that militates for a "hot time in the old town" that night. The difference between the obverse and reverse also argues for a fire, due to differential access to oxygen.

Thanks VKurt please follow your conscience and vote in our poll.

[Sandon]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:20 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

did you know people are now collecting DAMAGE coins?

   There is nothing new about this. Young, budget and casual collectors were collecting severely impaired as well as heavily worn coins when I started collecting over fifty years ago, and most dealers have always offered "fillers". What I find silly is that there are now collectors who will knowingly pay a premium for so-called "lowball" coins or even severely damaged pieces, such as coins said to have been salvaged from a particular shipwreck. I've always been of the opinion that one should collect the best quality that one can afford. The 1885 Liberty nickel that is the subject of this topic might have been worth $50 or so to me if I were a budget collector who couldn't afford more and who just wanted to complete the set.

   I have in my collection two coins that are holed. One is an 1865-S half dime with XF-AU details that I bought for $2 as a young collector back in the mid-1970s. I might never upgrade it, as this is a difficult issue to find, and an unimpaired one with equivalent details might cost $600 or more now. The other is the 1795 "three leaves" half dollar with VF details for which I paid $785 in 2007 and about which I posted a topic. HOL(E)Y THREE LEAVES! - US, World, and Ancient Coins - NGC Coin Collectors Chat Boards. An unimpaired example of this variety in this grade could cost around $9,000, so I'm happy to have this one. The point is to understand what you are buying and pay a reasonable price for it.

 

[Hoghead515]

I never read anyones post above. Dont know if the answer was posted yet but Im going with fire. Looks like something charred on it and looks like metal Ive seen before after being in fire. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:08 PM, Hoghead515 said:

I never read anyones post above. Dont know if the answer was posted yet but Im going with fire. Looks like something charred on it and looks like metal Ive seen before after being in fire. 

Thanks Hoghead please participate in the poll at the top of the post.

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:25 PM, Sandon said:

   I .... but agree with the others that the cause of this severe damage isn't important. Unless you were there when it occurred, it isn't possible to know for sure.

I have voted with what passes for my conscience, but reading very carefully between the lines, will suggest the unimaginable: not only does the OP know exactly what happened, he can tell us how, when and why!  Not for one hot minute do I put any credence into serious claims made by prominent members that the cause isn't important or of little or no concern. Only the party that insists all members put their scant knowledge to the test knowing all the while it was he who perpetrated this fine hot little mess is likely to benefit from this scandalous exposure and polling of epic proportions and that is the OP himself.  Am I stating J'accuse! because the poll exposes me for the ignoramus I am? Obviously!  🤣

Edited October 19, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Die-polishing

[Greenstang]

I voted #3. 
I eliminated #2 right away and the texture doesn’t look like it is #1.

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/19/2023 at 12:24 PM, Henri Charriere said:

I have voted with what passes for my conscience, but reading very carefully between the lines, will suggest the unimaginable: not only does the OP know exactly what happened, he can tell us how, when and why!  Not for one hot minute do I put any credence into serious claims made by prominent members that the cause isn't important or of little or no concern. Only the party that insists all members put their scant knowledge to the test knowing all the while it was he who perpetrated this fine hot little mess is likely to benefit from this scandalous exposure and polling of epic proportions and that is the OP himself.  Am I stating J'accuse! because the poll exposes me for the ignoramus I am? Obviously!  🤣

You voted the opposite of your first story.

[Henri Charriere]

 

On 10/19/2023 at 4:11 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

You voted the opposite of your first story.

Not really.  Early on, I realized you were the "prime mover," if not a "person of interest," but I already knew the "official" explanation would be clinical, sterile and antiseptic. [So boring, in fact, the the venerable VKurtB begged off with a terse, "cert. denied," from which there is no appeal, as is his prerogative.] I introduced a little-known, historical fact that made The Case of the V-nickel more interesting and entertaining.  

[Henri Charriere]

[Editorial rant:  Six replies in as many days. I respectfully request members stop worrying about the little, inconsequential things like reputation, life-long experience and credibility and address the matter at hand, as the OP suggested, with your conscience, or barring that, with your initial gut instinct.  Let's step on the gas here and muster four more votes!]

[zadok]

On 10/20/2023 at 9:47 AM, Henri Charriere said:

[Editorial rant:  Six replies in as many days. I respectfully request members stop worrying about the little, inconsequential things like reputation, life-long experience and credibility and address the matter at hand, as the OP suggested, with your conscience, or barring that, with your initial gut instinct.  Let's step on the gas here and muster four more votes!]

...u need to get out more...its one of those who cares threads, adds nothing to collecting coins...if its damaged end of story, why or how it arrived at that point inconsequential....

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/20/2023 at 11:00 AM, zadok said:

...if its damaged end of story, why or how it arrived at that point inconsequential....

In 2000, Air France Flight 4590, a Concorde passenger jet crashed shortly after take-off killing all 109 people on board.  Am I to believe the Great Zadock, refiner par excellence, would advise the Chairman of the NTSB to forgo an investigation for the above-stated reason?  I would hope not.

To the OP:  Enquiring minds want to know.  We are short a scant four votes.  Let the polling resume.

[zadok]

On 10/20/2023 at 4:47 PM, Henri Charriere said:

In 2000, Air France Flight 4590, a Concorde passenger jet crashed shortly after take-off killing all 109 people on board.  Am I to believe the Great Zadock, refiner par excellence, would advise the Chairman of the NTSB to forgo an investigation for the above-stated reason?  I would hope not.

To the OP:  Enquiring minds want to know.  We are short a scant four votes.  Let the polling resume.

...maybe its better if u dont get out more...