The released today Proof 2023-S ASE 1 1

[SpaceJunky]

Hi All.
I noticed something odd, maybe troubling too, at least with regard to the 10/10/23 release of the 2023-S ASE today.
First, I’ve personally stopped buying any raw and/or ungraded ASE directly from the US Mint. Now - with what I’ve just read on the US Mint’s website, regarding the 2023-S proof ASE, it only further validates that decision. 
What I learned today is this; the 2023-S proof ASE (American Silver Eagle) is now being minted with...         NO MINTAGE LIMITS... what? 
Is the US Mint effetely removing any shred of collectability re: this product?
Because, without any production limits they've (US Mint) all but eliminated, removed, reduced (destroyed) any collectability that’s apricated by…less being more, so to speak.
And now with only limited restraint at their silver presses, I can’t help but think these coins - along with their new & existing “limitless production” (sarcasm) – along with their proof quality, it pretty much all but guarantees minted perfection (i.e., grading 70) and that only perhaps those few gems found with “minting errors” will become… the investment that keeps on giving?
Oh wait, maybe they’ll be a few that reach stardom by grading at 71 (higher?), now there’s a concept. 
Feel free to try cheering me up… go ahead - tell me I'm wrong (please).
Signing off and wishing the best to all. 
Space Junky
 

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board. 

   Your topic would have been more appropriately posted and would be receiving more attention on either the "U.S., World, and Ancient Coins" forum or the "Newbie Coin Collecting Questions" forum. This forum is dedicated to topics pertaining to the NGC Registry. (The Administrator will likely move it to one of the other fora.)

    Your opinion demonstrates the proposition that it is impossible to please everyone.  When the mint has limited mintages of collectors' issues, they have often been almost immediate sell-outs, and many of the coins have tended to end up in the hands of dealers and speculators, much to the chagrin of many collectors who wanted to obtain a single example and could only do so on the secondary market at an inflated price. Some of these frustrated collectors have similarly declared that they will no longer be mint customers. The mintage of the 2023-S Proof silver eagle will in fact be limited by there being less than two months remaining in the calendar year in which they must be minted, as well as by the ridiculous $80 price being charged, which is nearly four times the coin's current silver value. The "W" mint version will have been on the market much longer and likely have a higher production.

   I agree that it makes no sense to submit these coins to grading services, as virtually all will be graded "69" or (most commonly now) "70" and are usually indistinguishable from each other. They should simply be graded "Superb Gem Proof' and priced the same. They should be collected in mint packaging for enjoyment and as tangible assets rather than for speculation.  Their wider availability may be favorable to the future of the coin market by ultimately increasing the number of collectors.

   

   

[SpaceJunky]

Sandon... thanks!
I apricate your reply as well as your opinion regarding the true coin collectors of the world, one's I may have discounted in my original rant?
Besides some very valid points you’ve brought up, the ones I now realize maybe I never fully considered? At least not in my knee-jerk reaction to the (potential) expanded & extended 2023-S proof ASE minting.
I think I can better understand, although still too soon to say apricate, this latest US Mint soiree into the unknown & uncharted rather unique, let’s say Beta approach re: their attempts to alleviate product scarcity.
I myself look forward to healthy competition, with challenges requiring above average hunting / gathering skills, a well metered sense of adventure and a PhD in cunning… something seldom found in always available overpriced US Mint products… but that’s me and I’m not for everyone – we’re all different, unique and I guess also deserve an entry ticket… I mean where the thrill in going it alone? 
I guess there’s something for everyone, I’m a collector and an investor, but one I’m not is… a forum poster with questions – someday… maybe? 
I was more interested in alerting the buy now and find out later (too late) crowd, before paying too much for so little and so averagely common.
Great food for thought, with me admitting I hadn’t considered the bigger picture. 
C’est la Vie, Space Junky
 

[Fenntucky Mike]

Unlimited mintages? About time! 

Everyone who wants one will be able to buy direct from the mint now, no more website crashing, price gouging, etc.. I also applaud the increased mintages on the Morgan and Peace dollars, the $80 price tag from the mint seems steep but they are required to turn a profit and if $80 is what it takes then so be it. I think what will eventually happen, if the mint continues with these unlimited and higher mintages, is that there will continue to be key dates with lower mintages but they will be driven by consumer demand at the time they were available, i.e. fewer sold so lower mintages produced by the mint in that given year, and if wider availability leads to an increase in the number of collectors that will also increase demand. 

As for TPGrading, if people want to chase 70's and labels that's up to them, with unlimited/increased mintages there will be plenty to go around. I'm not on board with grading them all Superb Gem Proof, or something along those lines, but do realize the argument to do so is similar to the one for unlimited mintages, whether or not to chase a label or grade is up to the individual, how many are produced or made available is not. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 10/10/2023 at 3:26 PM, SpaceJunky said:

Hi All.
I noticed something odd, maybe troubling too, at least with regard to the 10/10/23 release of the 2023-S ASE today.
First, I’ve personally stopped buying any raw and/or ungraded ASE directly from the US Mint. Now - with what I’ve just read on the US Mint’s website, regarding the 2023-S proof ASE, it only further validates that decision. 
What I learned today is this; the 2023-S proof ASE (American Silver Eagle) is now being minted with...         NO MINTAGE LIMITS... what? 
Is the US Mint effetely removing any shred of collectability re: this product?
Because, without any production limits they've (US Mint) all but eliminated, removed, reduced (destroyed) any collectability that’s apricated by…less being more, so to speak.
And now with only limited restraint at their silver presses, I can’t help but think these coins - along with their new & existing “limitless production” (sarcasm) – along with their proof quality, it pretty much all but guarantees minted perfection (i.e., grading 70) and that only perhaps those few gems found with “minting errors” will become… the investment that keeps on giving?
Oh wait, maybe they’ll be a few that reach stardom by grading at 71 (higher?), now there’s a concept. 
Feel free to try cheering me up… go ahead - tell me I'm wrong (please).
Signing off and wishing the best to all. 
Space Junky
 

You can always hope for a 70+* but then again I don't believe that's even a grade you can get. Why pay collector value or inflated silver price for an obviously bullion coin that will be made in the hundreds of thousands?

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:49 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

.... Why pay collector value or inflated silver price for an obviously bullion coin that will be made in the hundreds of thousands?

This may come as a curious surprise to some but I do not regard exorbitantly priced, Proof 2023-S ASE's, or any such dated ASE's as "bullion."  Uncirculated, or of lesser grade, Yes;  Proofs, No!  A "numismatic" aura attaches to any Proof. Nobody is ever going to commit the outrage of consigning a Proof coin to a furnace, refinery for its purported prevailing melt price in the future. Only FMV will attach.

If I an sadly mistaken, I will relinquish my Rising Star status immediately.

[J P M]

I will just hand pick my 2024 ASE at the local shop for the asking price which is normally $5 to $8 over melt. Put it in an Airtight and call it a day.  

[Henri Charriere]

On 2/9/2024 at 8:36 AM, J P M said:

I will just hand pick my 2024 ASE at the local shop for the asking price which is normally $5 to $8 over melt. Put it in an Airtight and call it a day.  

Reminds me of the old Goldwater slogan, "In Your heart You Know He's Right."