1832 Capped Bust Dime 1 1

[K-evin]

Hi

I have an 1832 Capped Bust Dime. 

It's exactly 2.7 g

Does anyone have any feedback on it. It's a coin with a lot of varieties. 

Thanks for sharing. 

 

 

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.

   When you post a topic about a specific coin this forum, it is best to ask us what you want to know about the coin and not just ask for general feedback.  I'll try to provide information you most likely want.  While your photos are sufficiently clear, they should be cropped so that the photos are almost entirely of the coin instead of mostly of the surface on which it sits.  

   Based on the photos and the weight you stated, your 1832 Capped Bust, close collar strike dime appears to be genuine. However, the authenticity of a coin cannot be determined without in-person examination.  The coin has Extremely Fine to About Uncirculated details but appears to have been polished or chemically "cleaned" to an unnatural brilliance, which could significantly reduce its market value.

   There are seven listed die varieties of 1832 Capped Bust dimes (JR-1 through JR-7), none of which appears to be particularly distinctive. (The varieties are likely based on slight differences in position of the date, stars, and/or lettering.) Unfortunately, the book that contains written descriptions of each variety and may provide rarity information, Davis et al., Early United States Dimes 1796-1837, is difficult to find; but NGC VarietyPlus has photos of all but JR-4. Early Dimes (1796-1837) | VarietyPlus® | NGC (ngccoin.com). PCGS Coinfacts has photos of the JR-4 and likely the others as well.  1832 10C JR-4 (Regular Strike) Capped Bust Dime - PCGS CoinFacts. Relatively few collectors actively collect early dimes by die variety.   

   

[K-evin]

Thank you.

I was concerned that it was counterfeit more than anything initially.  I should have stated that. 

Can I sell it without grading or do you think it has lost its value?

I just have a case of hopium but I think it sounds like it is for naught. 

[K-evin]

The flash kind of changes the color. This is visually actually a darker coin with a nice coloring to the fields of the coin. It's very appealing.

[Sandon]

   Grading services routinely return many coins whose inexperienced--and sometimes even experienced--submitters thought were "very appealing" with "details" grades as "cleaned" or otherwise impaired. The "coloring in the fields" (toning) appears to be irregular, which together with the coin's unnatural sheen is often indicative of "cleaning". Unless you have a substantial amount of experience grading coins yourself, you should not be considering submitting coins to grading services.  If you want to sell the coin, you should offer it to dealers and decide whether the price they offer you is sufficient, bearing in mind what the grading and processing fees and shipping costs would cost you and that it would take several months to receive the coin back from the grading service. 

[EagleRJO]

On 9/5/2023 at 8:30 PM, K-evin said:

Can I sell it without grading or do you think it has lost its value?

I think the coin is valuable enough at XF to AU to submit to a TPG, particularly if the unnatural or irregular appearance is just the lighting and it straight grades.  You can find more info about the coin including example grades of straight graded coins (for comparison with the coin in-hand) as well as guide prices at the following links.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1832-10c/4521

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/united-states/dimes/early-dimes-1796-1837/14521/1832-10c-ms/?des=ms

Sandon also had a good suggestion of showing it to a coin dealer to see what they would offer in order to help you decide how to proceed.

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!

After looking at the recognized varieties for this coin on NGC VarietyPlus and the JR-4 on PCGS, I still am unable to pin this coin to a particular variety. Your numerals are a little farther away from the denticles than on most of the listed varieties. I am not going to say your coin is an undiscovered variety, because I am sure it does fall within the known and recognized established varieties, and maybe the distance from the denticles has less to do with it than the shape and position of the numerals. I believe I counted out, though, JR-1 through JR-3. JR-1 and JR-2 have a weak numeral 2 and JR-3 almost resembles a repunched date, so I don't think it is any of those.

Variety aside, I am not sure if any of the variety designations add significant value to this coin as even NGC does not list variety values separately for this date as they do for other dates. I believe your coin to be a low end AU (think 50). There is enough detail on both sides imho to reach AU (imho). I am looking specifically at the arrow tips still having the line through them, the eagles claws are almost full of the claw details, the leaves still have the lines through them, the wing tips are lightly worn as is the eagle's head, the shield lines are still separated, the hair on the obverse shows most of the main details, the clasp is visible, and the drapery is still showing the folds as well as the folds in the cap are still showing plainly.

I do however agree with the others that this coin has been previously cleaned, and seemingly improper for the highest points of the coin to be silver and the fields and around the raised details to be showing dark toning which is splotchy in appearance and not even as a coin such as this would tone evenly. The improper cleaning does not mean the coin has lost all of its value but with the cleaning impairment, it will not reach the value listed for its grade. With a mintage of only 522,500, it will still retain some value. I would say around $250 but expect a dealer to pay less than that (maybe around $200) as they still have to make money to stay in business.

[K-evin]

I will take it to a dealer who can see it in-hand.

I'm seeing the cleaning remarks and using a link provided (which were reviewed prior to this posting) differently.  

I took another picture in the sunlight and I attached.  I'm just not confident in my own observations to just "know" the right answer. 

I personally don't think the novice can go to a coin dealer and not be eaten by the shark. I'm sure you gentlemen don't have the problem we newbies face.  I have found them to take pride in removing all the value from a trade once they sniff my uncertainty. 

This hobby needs new blood and it is full of scammers making it hard for the newbies to get a fair deal. 

I wish I could find a dealer that would help like you guys on this board.  Here you can get feedback on the facts. When a dealer is holding my coin in his hand it changes the rules of the game.  

 

[Sandon]

On 9/6/2023 at 10:38 AM, K-evin said:

I personally don't think the novice can go to a coin dealer and not be eaten by the shark.

   In my 52 years of experience, I've found that although coin dealers vary widely in knowledge, opinions and professionalism, most of them aren't determined to cheat you. However, the best defense is to educate yourself and not remain a "novice". If you don't own at a minimum a recent edition "Redbook", a grading guide, and a subscription to a current price guide, I recommend that you obtain and study them. Here is a link to a topic describing these basic print resources, as well as some online substitutes:

   Both PCGS (pcgs.com) and the American Numismatic Association (money.org) offer online videos and other resources that may assist you in learning grading and detecting "cleaned" and otherwise impaired coins. "Cleaning" is among those issues about which even experienced collectors and dealers sometimes disagree.  I have a custom registry set depicting coins in my collection that grading services described as "cleaned", most of which I bought already so graded because I found them suitable nevertheless. Characteristics of "Cleaned" Coins - Custom Set (collectors-society.com) You can also compare these coins with numerically graded coins in my competitive sets at Sandon's Competitive Sets | NGC (ngccoin.com).

[EagleRJO]

I don't think local dealers would be out to cheat less experienced people, as that is likely a good chunk of their business and they probably wouldn't be in business long doing that.  In fact they may be more helpful than you might expect as you could be a potential new customer.  But keep in mind that it's a for-profit business so prices they quote for purchasing a coin will be wholesale numbers, not retail prices you might find in value guides.

And it's always good to have a local shop that you have a relationship with, and who could submit coins to a TPG for grading on your behalf typically for much less than you could do that, including the coin posted here.  And if you are interested in particular coins maybe contact them to give them a shot at quoting you a price to sell you that.

[VKurtB]

I see nothing amiss with this dime, unless the lighting is hiding something. The lighting on the second set of pics is unusually oblique. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by VKurtB

[powermad5000]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:38 AM, K-evin said:

I'm sure you gentlemen don't have the problem we newbies face.

LOL! I think we probably have more problems since we argue certain specific points with dealers in the face of them throwing their Greysheet numbers at us. I know it happens with me especially when I am trying to move graded slabbed coins and they throw VG or XF prices at me when it is clearly an MS coin in the slab.

[VKurtB]

There are three ways to make a living out of dealing coins. AT LEAST one MUST BE USED in order to succeed as a dealer:

1) Screw the people you sell coins to.

2) Screw the people you buy coins from.

3) Maintain a tremendous volume of throughput.

This is why many dealers become mostly bullion sellers - it helps with 3). Overhead costs are insane, higher than ever before. Coin prices are not keeping up with overhead, so buy/sell spreads HAVE TO explode beyond all reason. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by VKurtB

[powermad5000]

On 9/7/2023 at 11:57 AM, VKurtB said:

There are three ways to make a living out of dealing coins. AT LEAST one MUST BE USED in order to succeed as a dealer:

1) Screw the people you sell coins to.

2) Screw the people you buy coins from.

3) Maintain a tremendous volume of throughput.

This is why many dealers become mostly bullion sellers - it helps with 3). Overhead costs are insane, higher than ever before. Coin prices are not keeping up with overhead, so buy/sell spreads HAVE TO explode beyond all reason.

I agree with you Kurt, but I think for those dealers who are buying and selling old US coins (non-bullion), you would have to use 2 of the three with number three being the one that must always be used and I think they get more people with number two (which is number two for the seller) because someone looking to unload something usually has a reason for it and is easier to bargain with because they just want to get some cash back in their pocket and will let something go for less than they were looking to get for it, versus the person with money in his pocket is more likely to walk away when they ask how much for something and get the number from the dealer and they go "Wow! Well, that's out of my price range." and walks away without the sale being made. 

[K-evin]

Well Thanks for letting me know what you think.