1967 Kennedy 1 1

[Chris Mikesh]

Hi All,

From all I've read, the 1967 (P) Kennedy should be 40% silver clad with a copper interior.  Usually you see the "Oreo" sandwich of copper interior.  But I looked this coin over at X5+ magnifying, but I see no sign of copper on the reeded edge. Other Kennedys (1966, to 1968) show the copper, although not as prominently as post-1970 CuNi.

So, the question is: Does anyone know of an all silver 1967 (P)?  Is it even possible?  There is no rim damage (in fact it has some tarnishing), no double die, and, in all respects, looks like an AU condition coin.  

The history of the coin(s) is from a lady who used to work at a bank in Lynchburg, VA since the 60's, and she amassed a sizable collection of silver coins (not to mention 19 rolls of 1964s).  She knew what she was looking for.  (I wish I had that foresight.)

Any thoughts on the subject are welcome.

Chris 

[Fenntucky Mike]

What's the weight?

[Chris Mikesh]

Good question?  I'll get my postage Meter...

[Coinbuf]

Weight will solve this question, however, it is not unusual for clad coins to not show the copper core on the edge.

[Chris Mikesh]

Postage meter didn't survive the last Pinewood Derby.  Any other thoughts?  The only other observations are that it 'rings' like a silver coin.  Not a 'thud' like a regular clad.  Compared to a 1972, this is a whiter appearance (ie: Silver) like another 1967 in the same pile. Not unexpected. It doesn't need cleaning as you see.  

I'll go jump a local drug dealer in Baltimore and get a scale.  I can look up the presumed weight, but what should I be looking for?

Attached pictures.  The other bag of Kennedys is at the bottom of the stash.  I may be asking more questions.

Thanks. Chris

[ldhair]

The 90% should be 12.50 grams.

The 1967 should be 11.50 grams.

[Sandon]

   Although it is remotely possible that a 1967 Kennedy half dollar could have been struck from a leftover 90% silver blank, the core of a normal silver clad piece is still about 21% silver and may show little difference in color from the 80% silver outer layer when the edge hasn't been handled enough to cause the copper in the alloy to darken.  Most of the edge on your coin does in fact show a yellowish tinge that isn't present near where the edge meets either the obverse or the reverse. The only way to tell for sure would be to weigh the coin on a properly calibrated digital scale that is accurate to at least the nearest tenth (preferably hundredth) of a gram.

[VKurtB]

I see a totally normal 40% silver 1967 half. The color difference is there; it’s just subtle.

[Chris Mikesh]

I found my dad's old mechanical scale.  The coin weighs under .5oz.  Converted to grams it comes between the two weights noted by Idhair.  I just ordered a scale from Amazon.  It will be here tomorrow.  It's the same scale you see on TV, "Cops".  Good enough for a drug dealer - good enough for me.  LOL!

But seriously... Thanks everyone.  I expect it to be clad.  Advice from the experienced Tellers and money handlers, has been to handle money and when something is unusual you can pick it out right away.  I expected to see copper, and you guys came through - AGAIN!

[Chris Mikesh]

Hi VKurtB,  I'm expecting it to be nothing special also.  Be careful in what's left of the hurricane.

[Chris Mikesh]

I have my Labor Day weekend cut out for me.  Two bags of 1964 Kennedys (19 Rolls).  I'll let you guys know if I find anything unusual. 

I'll have my Grandkids sort them by date and see how high of a pile they can make!

[EagleRJO]

On 8/31/2023 at 1:41 PM, Chris Mikesh said:

From all I've read, the 1967 (P) Kennedy should be 40% silver clad with a copper interior.  Usually you see the "Oreo" sandwich of copper interior.  But I looked this coin over at X5+ magnifying, but I see no sign of copper on the reeded edge. Other Kennedys (1966, to 1968) show the copper, although not as prominently as post-1970 CuNi.

The 40% silver clad half dollars struck from 1965 to 1970 didn't have a pure copper core like the 1971 and later half dollars (except 1976).  The 1965 to 1970 "silver clad" coins have a mixed 21% silver (Ag) and 79% copper (Cu) core that has a darker color, but it's not copper in appearance.  They also have a lighter colored 80% Ag and 20% Cu outer cladding, that brings it to 40% Ag overall.  You should at least get a copy of a recent Red Book which has this composition info, along with weights, if you don't have one already.

See the attached example of how the edges for the various composition half dollars appear.  The edge of your coin appears consistent with a 40% silver clad half dollar, with a somewhat darker but not copper colored center.  If you weigh the coin with at least a 1/10th gram accuracy (1/100th gram preferable) that should verify the composition is 40% silver clad.

On 8/31/2023 at 1:41 PM, Chris Mikesh said:

Does anyone know of an all silver 1967 (P)?  Is it even possible?

While just about anything is possible, it would be extremely unlikely for a 1967 50C to be struck on a 90% silver planchet.  Stranger things have happened, but that is suspected to be intentional "mischief" by some graveyard shift mint workers.  As far as I know the half dollars incorrectly struck on a 90% silver planchet (called a "transitional error") were all at the beginning of 1965 when the change was first made to the 40% silver clad blanks.

I can imagine there being a possibility that at the beginning of 1965 there were still some leftover 50C blanks or coils at the mint with the 90% silver composition which either were intentionally used up or just used by mistake to strike some half dollars.  However, by 1967 the chances of there still being 90% silver 50C blanks or coils at the mint are virtually zero.

Edited September 2, 2023 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

On 8/31/2023 at 3:37 PM, Chris Mikesh said:

Hi VKurtB,  I'm expecting it to be nothing special also.  Be careful in what's left of the hurricane.

Nothing but gorgeous blue skies throughout. In the Northern Hemisphere, the best place to be is to the west and north of a storm. The storm sucks all the clouds into it. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by VKurtB

[RWB]

90% silver blanks were not cut from coils. 40% and clad were.

Mint experimented with ways to have 40% present completely silver edge all the time, but gave up due to cost of retooling, etc.

[Chris Mikesh]

EagleRJO.

BIG THANK YOU for the info.  That is a great help and picture.  I appreciate the time you took for the extensive answer.  I do have the book (and the 2024), but it is at the bottom of the piles right now. When I picked up my friend's collection in Lynchburg, it filled my office.  Lots of 20th century stuff like State Quarters, Bicentennial, $2 bills and a $3 "Bill" Clinton (I think it has lost value).  

Interesting also RWB.  I didn't know that.  I'll have to go up to Philidelphia to visit the mint if it's open for tours.

GB, Chris

[Just Bob]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:41 PM, Chris Mikesh said:

Hi All,

From all I've read, the 1967 (P) Kennedy should be 40% silver clad with a copper interior.  

This, apparently, is what caused your confusion. This information is off a bit. As stated above, the inner layer was 79/21 copper/ silver. (Actually, .791/.209) That is why you see only a slight yellowish band, instead of a copper colored one. 

Have fun playing with your pile of silver! 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Just Bob

[Chris Mikesh]

Hi again,

I got my Drug Scale in a few minutes ago, put the batteries in, calibrated it, and sure enough....

...11.36 grams.  Not silver - but I got ripped off.   I want the rest of my coin back!  LOL!

Thank you everyone.  I learned a lot in this exercise.  You guys are the best.

God Bless,

Chris

[VKurtB]

On 8/31/2023 at 8:02 PM, Just Bob said:

This, apparently, is what caused your confusion. This information is off a bit. As stated above, the inner layer was 79/21 copper/ silver. (Actually, .791/.209) That is why you see only a slight yellowish band, instead of a copper colored one. 

Have fun playing with your pile of silver! 

Remember, even the 10% silver Mexican Pesos of decades ago look pretty darned silver. It doesn’t take much. 

[Conder101]

On 8/31/2023 at 2:13 PM, Coinbuf said:

Weight will solve this question,

Weight will NOT solver the question as coppernickel clad and 40% silver halve have a HUGE overlap in tolerance weight.  It would tell a 40% from a 90% but a leftover planchet after almost 3 years would really not be believable.

Until the edge starts to oxidize/tone after some handling the color difference doesn't really show much on higher grade or Unc pieces..

[EagleRJO]

On 8/31/2023 at 1:41 PM, Chris Mikesh said:

So, the question is: Does anyone know of an all silver 1967 (P)?  Is it even possible?  

On 9/4/2023 at 3:44 AM, Conder101 said:

Weight will NOT solver the question ...

You may have misread the question as weight should definitely solve if the op's 1967 50C normally struck on a 40% silver clad 11.50g +/- 0.40g planchet may have been incorrectly struck on an earlier (90%) silver 12.50g +/- 0.25g planchet

I don't see any reason to even compare the op's coin with the post 1970 50C Cu-Ni planchets that are closer in weight but not even used for 50C blanks until 1971 by the mint.

Edited September 4, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Chris Mikesh]

For those of you following... My Grandkids caught on in 2 rolls.  All Kennedys we 1964 - so they started breaking them out by Mint. I sent them on a Snipe Hunt looking for the ever-illusive 1964-S. Get it?? That got old in 3 rolls. So much for fooling the kids.  

Yes... I'm THAT GrandPa !