I'm new. If I buy proof coins from the U.S. mint, should I get them graded? 0

[Rindukamu]

There is alot to know.  What I've learned is that graded coins get you more in the future.  I'm building a collection for my grandkids.  I'm planning on multi decade holding of my gold and silver.  I've bought at auctions, I've bought at the U.S. mint, from friends.  What I've found is that MS70 coins are worth much more, especially if you hold onto them.  I'm not worried about the grading fee as my holding period should cover that.  Any advice or what to read/look at would be greatly appreciated.  I'm loving this!

[Coinbuf]

Hmmm where to start, welcome to the forum.   There is no requirement to have coins graded and slabbed by a TPG (third party grader) anyone can if they choose to but it is an expensive process with no guaranties as to what grades you might receive.  From your post is seems that you are concentrating on modern and US mint products be it proof or circulation coinage.   Yes, as a general rule a coin that approaches or achieves the highest possible grade might/will command the highest prices.   However, is it not easy to get a grade of MS70, very few coins receive a grade that lofty, even for modern mint coinage.   Most of the coins which are blessed with the highest grades are submitted by dealers who submit thousands of coins via the bulk submission process, or by experienced submitters that pour over hundreds of mint sets looking for the very best coins.   Buying a roll of coins form the mint, submitting them and receiving even one MS70 grade is not very likely, that would be somewhat like hitting the lottery, possible but the odds are against it.

Proof 70 (PF70) is a different story as a decent percentage of modern US mint proof coinage will be graded PF70.   If you buy 10 proof coins from the mint it is very likely that at least a few will grade as PF70.   Problem is you will lose money and have a hard time selling off all the PF69 or lower graded coins, and you will receive a few of those too.

As to what to read, well there is not much literature that is dedicated to modern mint products, there are tons of books on classic coinage.   The best you can hope for when buying mint products is that you happen to buy something that years later is considered to be a key or low mintage coin.   The problem is that even if a particular coin is produced in low mintage most of the production of mint proof products are saved so it will never be scarce or truly rare, this is really again much like playing the lottery and hoping you get a winning ticket.

You are indeed lucky if your heirs are truly interested in coins or holding onto your collection, I would say that close to 80% of collectors end up selling their collections prior to passing because they have no heirs that ae interested in the collection aside from what they can sell it for.

I hope you enjoy collecting, it is the study, history, and collecting of knowledge about coins that is the major driver for many collectors.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Coinbuf

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board. As the NGC Registry forum is for topics relating to the NGC coin registry, this topic should have been posted on the "Newbie Coin Collecting Questions" forum, where it will likely be seen by more chat board members. (The Administrator will likely move it there.)   

On 8/16/2023 at 3:29 PM, Rindukamu said:

There is a lot to know.

   As a collector of U.S. coins for over fifty years, I agree. Respectfully, that is essentially all of your statement with which I agree.

   My answer to the question asked in the title of your topic is an emphatic NO!  As a new collector who has not developed at least competent basic grading skills, the last thing you should be considering is sending any coins to grading services, at least not without the advice of an experienced dealer or collector.  Moreover, in my opinion, no one should remove modern collectors' coins from their attractive and usually relatively compact mint packaging and send them to grading services to be placed in bulky holders. Virtually all of these usually common coins will grade "68", "69", or "70", all of which grades are hard even for experienced eyes to tell apart and would traditionally have been subsumed into the "Superb Gem" adjectival grade and priced the same. 

On 8/16/2023 at 3:29 PM, Rindukamu said:

What I've found is that MS70 coins are worth much more, especially if you hold onto them. 

   I consider the "70" grade, which the grading services base on a quick inspection under low (5x or less) magnification, to be nothing more than a marketing gimmick by dealers in modern coins and grading services. The only "70" graded coins I own I bought out of "junk slab" boxes at coin shows and paid far less than what it would have cost to submit them for grading.  A large percentage of both proof (and lately even uncirculated) collectors' issues and bullion coins of recent years submitted to grading services have been graded "70", so for these issues, even if you consider the grade to be legitimate, it isn't rare. (Were you aware that PCGS alone has graded over 6.6 million coins--all modern collectors' and bullion issues--"70"?) Population Totals (pcgs.com). @Coinbuf is probably correct that most of these coins were hand selected by experienced graders, but they have become so numerous to make any premium valuation highly questionable.

On 8/16/2023 at 3:29 PM, Rindukamu said:

What I've learned is that graded coins get you more in the future.  I'm building a collection for my grandkids.  I'm planning on multi decade holding of my gold and silver.

   I don't know where you "learned" this, but it isn't necessarily so. Serious collectors don't take the grade on a grading service tag at face value. Non-modern coins of the same issue can vary widely in appearance (strike, toning, luster, abrasions, "eye appeal"), and anyone who has checked the prices realized at a major coin auction on successive lots of coins of the same issue given the same grade by the same grading service knows that such lots can realize markedly different prices. Grading service standards for the same grades have changed over time, and there has periodically been discussion of changing the 70-point numerical grading system to a 100-point system or, more recently, to a ten-point system with intermediate decimal points such as that offered by NGC to a group of modern coin dealers under the "NGCX" label.  By the time your grandchildren inherit your collection the grades indicated on today's holders may be obsolete, just as the adjectival grading standards I learned in the 1970s are quite different from the standards used today.  What is important is to learn about how to grade and otherwise evaluate coins yourself and develop good judgment and taste in selecting coins for your collection. Quality never goes out of style!   

On 8/16/2023 at 3:29 PM, Rindukamu said:

Any advice or what to read/look at would be greatly appreciated.

   We have an expression that goes back before my time, Buy the book before the coin!  Nowadays some of your reading can be done online. I don't know what you've been reading, but the basics are described in the initial post on the following topic:

  For a more thorough discussion of the issues regarding the "70" grade, see the comments that I and others made in the following topic:

 

[Rindukamu]

First of all, let me say thank you to you both for replying.  When I look back on my post, it appeared rather scattered.  Reading through your responses, I should "read the book" (get some education) before getting online and just buying coins.  I appreciate you both for taking the time to give me feedback.  I will be asking more questions at a later date.  Cheers.

 

P.S.  I have 5 kids.  One of them is very interested to take over from me when I'm gone.  

[Saluki1]

Good posts.

I'm in a very similar boat except just two kids and not a lot of interest from them, or the wife.

I realized 60 years ago that the universe of coin collecting is far bigger and more complex than I could ever fully explore as a hobby.  Oh well. I've resigned over the years to buy what appear to be quality (gold and silver proofs, high relief and selected "limited" editions) directly from the US Mint - beautiful coins - what I know will be enjoyable to own.

Edited July 20 by Saluki1
Added" beautiful coins"

[VKurtB]

I would never recommend anyone routinely get modern proof coins graded by a TPGS. There are EXCEPTIONS to that rule, but they truly are exceptional. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/16/2023 at 3:29 PM, Rindukamu said:

There is alot to know.  What I've learned is that graded coins get you more in the future.  I'm building a collection for my grandkids.  I'm planning on multi decade holding of my gold and silver.  I've bought at auctions, I've bought at the U.S. mint, from friends.  What I've found is that MS70 coins are worth much more, especially if you hold onto them.  I'm not worried about the grading fee as my holding period should cover that.  Any advice or what to read/look at would be greatly appreciated.  I'm loving this!

If you enjoy collecting coins and want to give something TANGIBLE to your grandkids, then we can delve more into what is the best use of your $$$. 

However....if you think that this will be a good or the best investment for you to hand down to them, that is an entirely different question and one that is probably best ended by saying that stocks, bonds, and mutual funds are probably your best bet for the youngsters.

Let's assume it is #1.  Understand that with modern coins -- which get the 69's and 70 grades -- you pay a huge premium for MS or PF 70's (sometimes even 69's).  There is NO GUARANTEE that the premium will hold in the future.  Today's hot coin can be forgotten 5 or 15 years from now.

It's one thing to pay up for a 70 because you want 1 coin that is perfection.  But if the price of gold or silver doubles from here, understand that paying a big premium to the underlying PM price will eat into your gains and maybe wipe out most of it.

If you want 70's and 69's to hand down to the youngsters, decide if it will be the annual U.S. Mint releases of Silver and Gold Eagles....other coins or commemoratives...or maybe even classic coins which have bullion and numismatic value (those will certainly have lower grades).   Lots of ways to go here, give it some thought especially before you pay big $$$ for some of the silver and the gold coins.

 

Edited July 20 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/17/2023 at 4:57 PM, Rindukamu said:

First of all, let me say thank you to you both for replying.  When I look back on my post, it appeared rather scattered.  Reading through your responses, I should "read the book" (get some education) before getting online and just buying coins.  I appreciate you both for taking the time to give me feedback.  I will be asking more questions at a later date.  Cheers. P.S.  I have 5 kids.  One of them is very interested to take over from me when I'm gone.  

There are many ways to go with this, Rindu. 

Are you giving your kids coins with the hope/expectations that they will appreciate in the future ?  Because you think that some modern coins in the 70 and 69 grade will be nice to look at ?  Or maybe you are thinking of classic American coins that have history (and numismatic value, in many cases) embedded in them ?

You mentioned silver and gold coins -- moderns ?  Or Pre-1933 coins including Morgans and Saint-Gaudens/Liberty Head DEs (and maybe smaller denomination gold coins, too) ?

Again....LOTS of ways to go.  There's no right or wrong answer, just look before you leap.  We're here to help you make the right choices or avoid expensive mistakes once you decide which way to go. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/19/2024 at 4:50 PM, Saluki1 said:

Good posts. I'm in a very similar boat except just two kids and not a lot of interest from them, or the wife. I realized 60 years ago that the universe of coin collecting is far bigger and more complex than I could ever fully explore as a hobby.  Oh well. I've resigned over the years to buy what appear to be quality (gold and silver proofs, high relief and selected "limited" editions) directly from the US Mint -  what I know will be enjoyable to own.

Some kids just may not have interest in coins.   OTOH, giving them a classic nice Morgan (or more expensively, a Double Eagle) along with the story behind it might spur them to take a bit more interest.  People who never had an interest in coins but are interested in American history -- reading books or watching stuff on The History Channel, for example -- are more likely to show interest in a classic American coin than someone who plays Halo or video games 24/7.

At the very least, they may treasure it and value it more than the PM content the coin contains.  If that's all you manage to do, it's still better than nothing. 

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!

I would like to add some commentary even though you have gotten sage advice already.

It is nice to know that you have someone to pass your coin collection to. Some of us do not have this. While it is easy to buy coins, it is much more difficult to select coins that will hold their value, especially when it comes to modern issues. There are not many modern issues that continue to hold value for years after being minted. Many modern issues experience a craze when they are first released, but look at historical prices over a decade or more and see how many of them drop. There are few modern issues considered as scarce.

While MS 70 is a grade to strive for, and collectors do pay premiums for such a grade, it is common in proof coins. Also, when it comes to this grade, it comes to mind that the values listed may have been driven up by competitive registry collectors, and as these issues age over time, that value will surely go down.

Grading in and of itself is no guarantee that a coin's value will remain the same or go up in the future. While the spot prices of gold and silver have historically gone up over time, there is no guarantee that those can't go down in the future. Also, there are many instances of graded coins both modern and classic that have lost value over time. As a member here, I get weekly emails about classic coinage that is graded and the prices fluctuate. Even some of the higher graded coins in some series suffer from price declines, sometimes in the thousands of dollars on some of the more expensive coins. Value is never guaranteed in this hobby and grading does not prevent a coin from suffering from setbacks in value no matter how long you hold on to it.

If you are buying things from the Mint, I would leave them in the Mint packaging. Trying to retrieve a coin from the original packaging risks damage to the coin itself, and also exposes it to the environment it was originally sealed to protect it from. Many times, people have opened Mint sealed packaging trying to get a grade of MS 70, only to end up with a grade of MS 68 or MS 69 as there was some incidental damage removing a coin from the Mint packaging no matter how carefully it is done.

As for your question about learning resources, you have already been given the best information by other members in this thread so I don't feel a need to repeat any of it.

Good luck in your collecting and we will always be here to answer any questions you have that come up in the future! 

[Henri Charriere]

I.  Every coin, presumably born in Mint State status is subject to a litany of lifetime conditions... denial, revocation, reconsideration, rescission, continuance and, if held long enough, ineligibility for further appeals.

II.  No so the Proof.  I find any contemplation to even suggest consideration of discussing the subject of grading, as it relates to, at base, a special manufacturing process, to smack of an oxymoronic insult. Accordingly, I adamantly refuse to entertain the very thought that the state of perfection, which one prominent member surprisingly admitted he himself has never witnessed, i.e. PF-70 ought to be subjected to debate, and do so politlely.

Edited July 20 by Henri Charriere
Addition of Roman numeral.

[RWB]

Q: "If I buy proof coins from the U.S. mint, should I get them graded?"

A: No.