Came from unopened 1800’s coin roll never circulated or cleaned. Thoughts? 2 2

[VKurtB]

On 9/4/2023 at 3:06 PM, Henri Charriere said:

It may seem that way today, but back in the 1960's, if I am not mistaken, the price of proof sets were $2.10 or $2.40. 

$2.10. Correct. 91¢ face.

Edited September 4, 2023 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/4/2023 at 6:31 PM, VKurtB said:

$2.10. Correct. 91¢ face.

@Hoghead515 :  There's your answer, Hog. There was a time when a U.S. Mint product could be had for as little as two dollars and change. (My thanks to the OP and VKurtB!.)

[Hoghead515]

On 9/4/2023 at 8:58 PM, Henri Charriere said:

@Hoghead515 :  There's your answer, Hog. There was a time when a U.S. Mint product could be had for as little as two dollars and change. (My thanks to the OP and VKurtB!.)

That was quite a bit of money in some places back in the 50s and 60s. Here where we live ive heard some of the old timers talking about working all day to make very little. Id say those were easy targets in the poverty striken areas. Some unhonest postal workers could easily get a 6 pack or two with one of those sets at the bootleggers. Dosent look like they made any effort to disquise the box in any way. Thats the first time Ive ever seen one of the original boxes. Thanks for sharing @VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/10/2023 at 9:52 AM, Sandon said:

   It's highly unlikely that this 1883-CC Morgan dollar came from an "unopened 1800's coin roll." 

There is no such thing as an "MS 70" 1878-1921 Morgan dollar. 

Prompted by your post, I did a little excavating of my own. Several patents were issued for coin bunching machines, and the like, in the period from 1901 to 1910. By 1911, banks began using automatic coin-wrapping machines, some using different colors to denote different denominations. It wasn't until 1913, after the Federal Reserve Bank was created that their various individual bank districts began utilizing original bank-wrapped rolls (OBW) distinguished by their tightly-sealed ends. So rolls date to the beginning of the 20th Century and, as member Sandon noted not surprisingly, no Morgan dollars have been certified as MS-70.

I do hope you pardon my impertinence, but I am curious.  If your Morgan surreptitiously marked MS-70 by persons unknown was in fact a high-calibre example, what would you call a Morgan with an unquestionably strong strike, ample, original mint luster, fine color and great eye appeal -- minus the impossible to ignore or overlook commotion on Liberty's left cheek? I believe if an MS-70 Morgan were found, it would rank right up there with coelacanths, passenger pigeons and ivory-billed woodpeckers.

[VKurtB]

On 9/4/2023 at 8:53 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Prompted by your post, I did a little excavating of my own. Several patents were issued for coin bunching machines, and the like, in the period from 1901 to 1910. By 1911, banks began using automatic coin-wrapping machines, some using different colors to denote different denominations. It wasn't until 1913, after the Federal Reserve Bank was created that their various individual bank districts began utilizing original bank-wrapped rolls (OBW) distinguished by their tightly-sealed ends. So rolls date to the beginning of the 20th Century and, as member Sandon noted not surprisingly, no Morgan dollars have been certified as MS-70.

I do hope you pardon my impertinence, but I am curious.  If your Morgan surreptitiously marked MS-70 by persons unknown was in fact a high-calibre example, what would you call a Morgan with an unquestionably strong strike, ample, original mint luster, fine color and great eye appeal -- minus the impossible to ignore or overlook commotion on Liberty's left cheek? I believe if an MS-70 Morgan were found, it would rank right up there with coelacanths, passenger pigeons and ivory-billed woodpeckers.

There are now MS-70 graded Morgan dollars. They are dated 2021 and 2023, however. Do they look nice? Not really, no.

[RWB]

On 9/4/2023 at 9:53 PM, Henri Charriere said:

So rolls date to the beginning of the 20th Century and,

Good information.

Actually, your comment indicates it was not until the 2nd decade that coins were rolled and then it was by some FRBs. The equipment was too expensive for smaller private banks and did not come into more general use until the 1930s-40s. Rolled coins were intended for local businesses since they made life easier for bank tellers and business retail clerks. Community banks, such as those my family was involved with, used ordinary paper wrappers available at supply shops. These had generic printing such as "20 Dollars" or "10 Dollars - Halves" and the ends were folded over so no coin was visible. (Machines wrapped with tucked ends so that a coin was visible.)

Historically, some of the mints put gold dollars (50 or 100) and 3-cent silver pieces in paper wrappers to make them easier to handle. New Orleans Mint packed Morgan dollars in rolls of 10 pieces as an accommodation for a railway line that used a lot of dollar coins.

[robec1347]

On 9/4/2023 at 3:31 PM, VKurtB said:

$2.10. Correct. 91¢ face.

$2 in 1960 = $20 and change in 2023. Still a bargain compared to what the mint charges today. 

[VKurtB]

On 9/5/2023 at 10:17 AM, robec1347 said:

$2 in 1960 = $20 and change in 2023. Still a bargain compared to what the mint charges today. 

Ah, but the legal requirements imposed upon the Bureau of the Mint have changed radically due to the Governmental Accounting Standards Board and other pricing regulations. Once upon a time, coining mined bullion into gold and silver was considered a basic service of government, which was EXPECTED to be carried on at a loss. That idea has completely reversed over the years. ALL COSTS must now be borne by numismatic purchasers. Not even the seniorage from minting quarters for circulation (a HUGE number) can be used to offset numismatic product costs. Neither can bullion. The three divisions of the Mint must ALL be cashflow positive, which means none can subsidize the others. And ALL costs means ALL costs - salaries, wages, equipment use, power, marketing, metal (a tiny portion of the whole really), attendance at large coin shows, ALL OF IT, must now be borne on the broad shoulders of the numismatic purchaser. And that's how we get brand new silver proof sets selling for $130 a set. It's NOT the Mint's decision. It's Congress'.

Incidentally, this is ALSO why bullion coins now sell for a higher markup than they used to. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by VKurtB