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A Rooster for Henri (Q)
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Started by Zebo,

17 posts in this topic

Zebo

Zebo

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On 8/7/2023 at 12:26 PM, zadok said:

...what is it graded?....

Lot 425. FRANCE IIIe République (1870-1940). Présérie de 20 francs Marianne, Frappe spéciale (SP) 1898, Paris. Av. REPUBLIQUE FRANÇAISE. Tête laurée de la République à droite, signature J.C. CHAPLAIN. Rv. LIBERTE. EGALITE. FRATERNITE. 20 - Fcs. Coq à gauche ; à l’exergue (date). GEM.276.5 - G.1064 - Fr.596 ; Or - 6,45 g - 21 mm - 6 h. 
Top Pop: it’s the only graded coin!

PCGS SP63. Sans différents et tranche en relief. Frappe spéciale (SP). Aspect légèrement mat. Très rare et sans doute le troisième exemplaire connu ! Presque Fleur de coin. 
Starting price: 12000 €

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zadok

zadok

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On 8/7/2023 at 1:25 PM, Zebo said:

Lot 425. FRANCE IIIe République (1870-1940). Présérie de 20 francs Marianne, Frappe spéciale (SP) 1898, Paris. Av. REPUBLIQUE FRANÇAISE. Tête laurée de la République à droite, signature J.C. CHAPLAIN. Rv. LIBERTE. EGALITE. FRATERNITE. 20 - Fcs. Coq à gauche ; à l’exergue (date). GEM.276.5 - G.1064 - Fr.596 ; Or - 6,45 g - 21 mm - 6 h. 
Top Pop: it’s the only graded coin!

PCGS SP63. Sans différents et tranche en relief. Frappe spéciale (SP). Aspect légèrement mat. Très rare et sans doute le troisième exemplaire connu ! Presque Fleur de coin. 
Starting price: 12000 €

...a specimen strike, the creme de la creme FDC example...i doubt there will be any crowing here on the forum, while every rooster i own is a top pop i wouldnt go after that coin, foremost i personally think their starting price is too much n secondly if pcgs only gave it a 63 then it must have some post mintage handling issues, if their opening bid was in the 3000 euros it mite make me consider, but who knows im sure there r some well heeled french collectors whetting their appetites...but still a very nice collectible example...there is a napoleon III 100 franc pattern in that same auction for a mere 200,000 euro, now thats a coin u could crow n lay an egg....

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Henri Charriere

Henri Charriere

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It is very lovely and while two are listed in the French Red Book (Monnais Francaises, 1789 - 2021) (latest edition) one, as a prototype, the other, as pre-series, I am off the hook.  The Set Registries of the top two leading TPGS  make no provision for a).  accommodating coins minted outside the authorized range, 1899 to 1914, or b). patterns, proofs, piedfort essais, varieties or errors of any kind of which there are a few notable examples.

Regarding the grade... It lies one tier below FDC (hence the reference to, "Presque (almost) Fleur de Coin" which embraces all Mint State grades between 65 and 70. The PCGS grade given, SP (actually SPL, or "Splendide," pronounced splen-DEED in French) includes only MS-63 and MS-64 coins.

This is the first time I have seen one and thank @Zebo for the courtesy of posting it and bringing it to my attention.

P.S.  The sale price is very much in line with previous sales, according to marginal notes I made from 2019 to the present.  

Edited by Henri Charriere
Correct misspelling.
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Zebo

Zebo

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On 8/7/2023 at 7:05 PM, Henri Charriere said:

It is very lovely and while two are listed in the French Red Book (Monnais Francaises, 1789 - 2021) (latest edition) one, as a prototype, the other, as pre-series, I am off the hook.  The Set Registries of the top two leading TPGS  make no provision for a).  accommodating coins minted outside the authorized range, 1899 to 1914, or b). patterns, proofs, piedmont essais, varieties or errors of any kind of which there are a few notable examples.

Regarding the grade... It lies one tier below FDC (hence the reference to, "Presque (almost) Fleur de Coin" which embraces all Mint State grades between 65 and 70. The PCGS grade given, SP (actually SPL, or "Splendide," pronounced splen-DEED in French) includes only MS-63 and MS-64 coins.

This is the first time I have seen one and thank @Zebo for the courtesy of posting it and bringing it to my attention.

P.S.  The sale price is very much in line with previous sales, according to marginal notes I made from 2019 to the present.  

I knew that it was outside the boundaries for the registry sets, but I started dabbling in patterns just to have something others do not that also fits into my collection nicely - even though I cannot include it into a registry set. It is a nice example and I thought you would enjoy seeing it.

Edited by Zebo
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Henri Charriere

Henri Charriere

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On 8/7/2023 at 4:42 PM, zadok said:

.... while every rooster i own is a top pop i wouldnt go after that coin, foremost i personally think their starting price is too much n secondly if pcgs only gave it a 63 then it must have some post mintage handling issues, if their opening bid was in the 3000 euros it mite make me consider,....

For the benefit of the other thousands of Rooster collectors who give all Set Registries wide berth neither denying nor confirming they own even one of the 117,000,000-plus such coins minted, I offer the following bits of hard-to-come-by figures for the connoisseurs of this series.

Generally speaking, they are now-you-see-it, now-you-don't. I do not believe the owners of Patek Philippe wristwatches or Rolls-Royce automobiles advertise their wares. Neither do the purveyors of these exclusive pieces, many one of a kind...

1898 [ ?  ] FDC, mintage UNK, €12,000; USD 15,000; Matt blank USD 20,000. bdor.fr 

1899 PCGS SP 63 Piefort Essai (no mintage/certification figures given). € 12,000; USD 13,400, upped to 13,607.40, OBO + $7. shipping, in early 2020.  By WinNumis SA Luxembourg (Geoffrey Winstead@gmail.com)

1899 PCGS SP-65 pop: 2/16, USD 12,376.29,  Walmart.com - 1/7/23.

[In 1900, 9443 matt proofs were minted. Present whereabouts?  Your guess is as good as mine.]  And finally...

1900 NGC PF-67 matte, cert# 1997994-001, sale price:  $24,400.  It was listed on their website circa 8/7/19 and remained there for a year straight before being either sold, or withdrawn from sale.

[The foregoing are the facts as I recorded them in marginal notes and any errors made are my own.  Had I won the half-trillion lottery, would I have acquired this coin?  No!  Why?  Not because I am a simple, former chiffonier (rag-picker) with simple tastes, now retired on a fixed income, but for no other reason than there is no place setting for it on any Set Registry known to man.]  🤣

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GoldFinger1969

GoldFinger1969

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Interesting how we chose the designs for our gold coins and other countries chose theirs.  The Rooser has an animal and a Greek guy I believe -- not sure if any other dated gold coins have animals ? 

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zadok

zadok

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On 8/19/2023 at 10:59 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Interesting how we chose the designs for our gold coins and other countries chose theirs.  The Rooser has an animal and a Greek guy I believe -- not sure if any other dated gold coins have animals ? 

not a greek guy...yes all of the pre-decimal ireland coins had animals, fowl n fish etc for one example, although not gold issues....

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Henri Charriere

Henri Charriere

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On 8/18/2023 at 9:43 PM, zadok said:

...hoghead, while ur searching for that vomit emoji for me could u also find me a kvetch emoji too?....

As regarding the above, I shall get to it in a moment. But first, FWIW, a bison appears on the gold piece commonly referred to as a buffalo which, minted at .9999 fineness, is regarding more as bullion than a coin though it bears a nominal face value of $50. (Gold spot, hovering at the 2K mark, has been creeping up slowly as of late.)

Now, to the matter of the above post...  For the benefit of New members primarily, I should like to emphasize that due to the voluminous knowledge this seasoned member brings to the Forum -- which no one, to date, has challenged or contradicted -- and in view of the fact that he took the time and trouble to research both my past and present User Names and the historical names I had assigned to my set registry here, referencing his findings accurately, discreetly and succinctly with no malice whatsoever and a subdued dignity, I am constrained to regard his barbs as good old-fashioned jousting. I can only hope newbies understand and accept no offense is given and none taken in this, or any other post. Not everyone understands or appreciates self-deprecating humor, but it's okay. My days are numbered and, with Moderation's permission, I should like to make the most of them. I again, thank the OP and those who've elected to weigh in with their respective contributions.

 

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