1887 Half Crown Grade? 2 2

[Tobias J Reily]

Just wondering how you see this. Lustre is very bright on the obverse, a big cartwheel effect. The reverse looks very nice but a bit less lustre, perhaps due to the lack of fields. Seems high grade, just wondering what your collective thoughts are? 

 

 

[Sandon]

   Although I don't actively collect non-U.S. coins, I'll offer an opinion on this "Jubilee Head" British half-crown based upon my experience with U.S. grading standards. The coin has some abrasions and apparent luster disturbance on the high points, as well as some hairlining in the fields.  The luster also seems to be somewhat "washed out", perhaps by "dipping" in an anti-tarnish solution, although it is difficult to assess luster based on a single photo and without being able to see the coin oneself.  Based upon what I can see, I would give the coin a grade range of AU 58 to MS 62.

[Just Bob]

MS60

[Fenntucky Mike]

I agree with the above posts but I'm a little more optimistic and would guess 60-64 if it straight grades.

The reverse could have some hazing from PVC, is see some green slime in spots, the obv has a lot of chatter and weird look, possibly from a dip/cleaning. 

[Henri Charriere]

Considering we have all seen Mint State coins with keg marks, surface chatter suggesting the moraine left by a receding glacier, and worse; and mindful the numismatic term Mint State lies between XF/EF and UNC by the British standard, I will award this Half Crown a grade of EF++/MS. (U.S. equivalent: a mythical AU-59-1/2+., and do so with great misgivings.)

Edited August 1, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Re-wording.

[VKurtB]

As a card-carryin' Alabamian who grew up near Philly, so I'm in cultural hell, but all 'Murrican, I love this coin. I see it grading anywhere from AU58 to MS62 at a 'Murrican TPGS firm. That said, the home country would be grading it XF+. The rim nicks at the right of the obverse might be problematic. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 7/29/2023 at 12:40 PM, VKurtB said:

As a card-carryin' Alabamian who grew up near Philly, so I'm in cultural hell, but all 'Murrican, I love this coin. I see it grading anywhere from AU58 to MS62 at a 'Murrican TPGS firm. That said, the home country would grading it XF+. The rim nicks at the right of the obverse might be problematic. 

...im not certain those two indentation to the right r rim nicks, they look closer to being striking issues?...the nick on the nose hurts n prevents a 63 grade, the crown is fully there n the hair adornment as well...its the abrasion on the cheek that will determine mint state or not...the reverse is well maintained with just a bit of flatness on the rampant lions head...i guess compared to other certified british coins i have i would grade it ms62, the question of dipping could also render a unc/cleaned result....

[Mike Meenderink]

UNC DETAILS CLEANED (Dipperoo) Very few coins of this age would ever look this bright no matter if it was sealed in an airtight box and worshipped as a god for the last 136 years. This coin has been dipped possibly whizzed. Its in the MS 62 range on details. Detract 2 grades (Drop to MS 60) on pricing valuation for UNC DETAILS coin and you have the value. Still a nice coin.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[zadok]

On 7/29/2023 at 3:05 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

UNC DETAILS CLEANED (Dipperoo) Very few coins of this age would ever look this bright no matter if it was sealed in an airtight box and worshipped as a god for the last 136 years. This coin has been dipped possibly whizzed. Its in the MS 62 range on details. Detract 2 grades (Drop to MS 60) on pricing valuation for UNC DETAILS coin and you have the value. Still a nice coin.

...absolutely no indications of whizzing on this coin...there r many coins over a hundred years old that r blast white...ur opinions on how coins r graded r not in touch with the real world....

[Henri Charriere]

It seems many members are reluctant to use the four-letter word, wear, opting for abrasion instead. When a child scrapes his knee, even to the point of drawing blood, that's abrasion. This is a question of wear and, as such, in the strictest sense of the word it  effectively disqualifies this coin from MS consideration. [This does not mean it will not grade as such if submitted.] In all other respects, its detailed surface ornamentation -- and age, has enough going for it to make its owner proud.

[RWB]

On 7/27/2023 at 9:12 PM, Sandon said:

grade range of AU 58 to MS 62.

"AU" means it is circulated -- even a tiny bit.

"MS" means uncirculated -- no evident wear.

There is no range that encompasses both...if one is right the other is wrong.

Barely AU -- abrasion on the face and rev high points.

.

Edited July 30, 2023 by RWB

[VKurtB]

On 7/30/2023 at 3:54 PM, RWB said:

"AU" means it is circulated -- even a tiny bit.

"MS" means uncirculated -- no evident wear.

There is no range that encompasses both...if one is right the other is wrong.

Barely AU -- abrasion on the face and rev high points.

.

This is not true. Coins with wear get MS61 or MS62 every stinking day. The controversy is whether the entire AU range even exists, and that is a matter of nationality and cultural preference. I OWN two coins that have very minor high point wear that are graded NGC MS65. Their color is immaculate and the strikes are magnificent. You can argue until you’re blue in the face that there’s a hard and fast line between the 50’s and the 60’s. That doesn’t make it so. You can say it OUGHT TO BE that way. You can even say it USED TO BE that way. But to say that it IS THAT WAY is simply a bald-faced lie. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

[Oddly, any range of from AU-55 to MS-62 falls squarely within the Angleterre's grading standard, XF /EF.  Clearly, if it is a chance at a higher-sounding grade the O.P. seeks, he would do well to consider submitting his Half Crown stateside.]

[J P M]

I think the coin is very nice . I do not collect to many British coins, I will say if it was a Morgan I bet it would get a MS64  

[Mike Meenderink]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:55 PM, VKurtB said:

This is not true. Coins with wear get MS61 or MS62 every stinking day. The controversy is whether the entire AU range even exists, and that is a matter of nationality and cultural preference. I OWN two coins that have very minor high point wear that are graded NGC MS65. Their color is immaculate and the strikes are magnificent. You can argue until you’re blue in the face that there’s a hard and fast line between the 50’s and the 60’s. That doesn’t make it so. You can say it OUGHT TO BE that way. You can even say it USED TO BE that way. But to say that it IS THAT WAY is simply a bald-faced lie. 

Kurt there is such a thing as die deterioration which graders factor in grading certain years and mints. Some coins were struck with detail deficiencies that appear as wear but alas are not. The 1908 Indian head cent is one example of a coin that appears to have wear on the head dress feathers on some coins but the rest of the wear on the coin does not match. This is due to late stage die deterioration or polishing and weakly struck coin run. A 1908 Indian would be a coin that if in the MS range would grade MS with apparent wear which is not actually wear. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[Tobias J Reily]

Thanks for all the replies. I was quite pleased with it when it arrived but after studying it for a bit it does seem to have altered surface on the obverse, whether by some sort of dip or other method. Tilting it about in the light it does appear to have different patches of colour, especially around the legends and around 1pm there is some sort of rub mark. I'm not going to waste a grading fee if it probably will details. Unfortunate cos I like the coin.

Also about strike, absolutely. A year or two ago I posted a 25 kopeks that everyone thought was AU, but I knew that because the fields were so reflective that it must have been a weak strike that was making the devices look worn. Sometimes coins really really look worn but it is either a weak strike or that aforementioned weak or late die state. 

[Stopheles]

Hi all, you seem to be very knowledgeable about the Victoria Jubilee half crown and its finer details. I wondered whether you'd be so kind as to give an opinion on a couple of 1889 half crowns I bought recently. One from a coin shop, one from ebay.

My kitchen scales are not accurate enough to give a precise weight. They should be 14.14g according: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces8474.html Both seem to be a bit underweight on my scales, but not massively, perhaps due to the wear on the more worn one (A) at least. I've just bought better digital scales and am waiting for those and some calipers to be delivered. In any case, one of the coins is noticeably thicker (B). See photos below. This suggests to me that it may be a restrike or counterfeit, but I'm a complete novice in this area having just started collecting this year. I already bought a couple of obvious fakes of some 8 reales by mistake. Luckily I've been able to return those.

Any thoughts on these two would be much appreciated - any details that don't look right, or on the grading, toning, or them ultimately being counterfeits. I assume it's not really worth sending them off to be graded as they are not highly valuable coins? It's of course possible that both are counterfeit, but I'm minded to think the more worn, thinner one is genuine. All good learning in any case!

Thanks in advance.

Chris

Edited September 8, 2023 by Stopheles
photo was blurry on one side.

[Moxie15]

The OP coin is very nice but would grade as no more than Extra Fine in the British standards. I am putting together a type set of British coins from William III to Elizabeth II, so far from an expert, I have experience with their grading. Things we accept such as cabinet friction or weak strike will more often than not keep the coin from an Uncirculated grade. That coin is well struck for the type and period, at least by what I have seen, and would be a daamn fine addition to just about any collection. You like it and are proud of it as you should be. If that is a typical example of your collection I would enjoy sitting with you and perusing through it.