An Original 1942 Proof Set 0

[FlyingAl]

This time, it appears to be the real deal.

This appears to be an original (Mint cellophane) 1942 Proof set. The coins are all high grade, and the set overall is matching.

Here are images (this is the most challenge I've had imaging coins, ever). 
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After discussing with @CaptHenway, who has seen original sets before, it would appear that this set has all of the hallmarks of originality. The packaging matches what he and other associates remember seeing from early Proof sets that came straight from the Mint (or from those who bought them from the Mint). However, the appearance of two staples is interesting (one has tissue paper in it).

The cello is rather stiff and crunchy, and has a texture at the base of each pouch that appears on each pre-1950 Proof set I've seen. However, I haven't seen it on post-1950 sets, which seem to have a lined texture or none at all. Perhaps I'm not looking hard enough at this though.

Contrary to what I think most of us would believe, the cent is bright red and has no discoloration or spots. This would further my stance that most wildly toned pre-1950 Proof cents are NOT original, but rather album/holder tone, or artificial tone. I grade the cent PR64RD.

The cent is a deep, blazing red and shows deep mirrors that flash under a lamp. Light hairlines are present in both the obverse and reverse fields, but no spots or discoloration are present. The deep red orange hues show at all angles, and truly shine with the flash of the mirrors. I grade the cent PR64RD.
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The nickel is also bright in appearance, and has no tone. A touch of contrast is present, but barely noticeable. Deep mirrors flash on both sides of the coin, and a light yellow touch appears throughout. I grade it PR67. 
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The dime has an overall steely gray appearance, with the reverse graced with some deep red and purple spots. The overall look is pleasing, and the surfaces appear clean. I grade it PR67. 
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The quarter has a light brown haze upon the surfaces, which fades to a steel gray flash when tilted into the light. The obverse and reverse have light orange, red and magenta rim tone spots. The mirrors flash through the toning easily, presenting a wonderful glare of color mixed with originality. I grade it PR67. 
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The half is absolutely stunning. Deep blues, greens, and purples adorn the obverse, fading into a blazing flash as the mirrors turn a silvery grey in the center. The reverse shows a similar color, with a light deep red spot tucked into the reverse periphery. The surfaces show a deep silvery grey, and no disturbances hinder the deep, clear mirrors. I grade it PR67+ STAR. 
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Edited July 1, 2023 by FlyingAl

[Henri Charriere]

I do not know what the current thought is on OGP, and ultimately, the decision is yours to make, but will you continue to store the intact set as is, seek an opinion on conservation, or...

[Coinbuf]

Cool set!  

[RWB]

Nice descriptions....photos not displaying in Firefox. Looked at it on PCGS board. Excellent preservation. What's on the rev of the half -- eagle's breast? The cellophane is 80+ years old. Keep in a cool, dry place with a sulfur trapping pad.

Edited July 2, 2023 by RWB

[VKurtB]

On 7/1/2023 at 10:16 PM, RWB said:

Nice descriptions....photos not displaying in Firefox. The cellophane is 80+ years old. Keep in a cool, dry place with a sulfur trapping pad.

Photos also not showing in Safari.

[FlyingAl]

Here's the photos over at PCGS, not sure why they won't show for you guys. No issues here. 

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13528720#Comment_13528720

[Sandon]

   I've also been unable to view the photos on the initial post and have instead received the following error message:

This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.
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<Message>Access Denied</Message>
<RequestId>82WTKPQZN3PY44JF</RequestId>
<HostId>m92DRFUdn4Gk6ZbadopNAyT9JG07tOGH+SUNkv3xCa40iOc0wXer0gnHeUZ6HdkCeblYrHXdyi0=</HostId>
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  I'm using a Windows 10 PC and the Microsoft Edge browser. Does anyone know how to correct this problem?

  I recall seeing 1936-42 era proof sets in the original square paper boxes and cellophane sleeves decades ago, although not lately as most were moved to lucite holders and then to grading service holders. I'd like to compare this one to what I remember. (I'll try the site that @FlyingAl just posted.)

 

[FlyingAl]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:16 PM, RWB said:

Nice descriptions....photos not displaying in Firefox. Looked at it on PCGS board. Excellent preservation. What's on the rev of the half -- eagle's breast? The cellophane is 80+ years old. Keep in a cool, dry place with a sulfur trapping pad.

Nothing on the eagle's breast. Just original color. 

[FlyingAl]

@RWB

I was assuming this was a set that was shipped in an envelope (and the envelope was then discarded, hence no box. Does this seem valid to you?

[RWB]

On 7/1/2023 at 11:34 PM, FlyingAl said:

@RWB

I was assuming this was a set that was shipped in an envelope (and the envelope was then discarded, hence no box. Does this seem valid to you?

All the sets were shipped in small boxes originally intended for medals. The size of box depended on the customer's order. Envelopes might have been used of one or two-coin orders, but I've never seen one. A box protected the coins - an envelope did not.

(RE: Half dollar. I should have said " left leg" not "breast." )

[FlyingAl]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:43 PM, RWB said:

All the sets were shipped in small boxes originally intended for medals. The size of box depended on the customer's order. Envelopes might have been used of one or two-coin orders, but I've never seen one. A box protected the coins - an envelope did not.

(RE: Half dollar. I should have said " left leg" not "breast." )

Looks like some minor planchet marks that didn't strike out all the way. Seems common on the Walkers of the era. 

[RWB]

On 7/1/2023 at 11:48 PM, FlyingAl said:

Looks like some minor planchet marks that didn't strike out all the way. Seems common on the Walkers of the era. 

Check to see if there is PL in that area. If the planchets were "always polished" for proofs, then any un-struck or incompletely struck area might show residual polish.

[FlyingAl]

On 7/1/2023 at 10:01 PM, RWB said:

Check to see if there is PL in that area. If the planchets were "always polished" for proofs, then any un-struck or incompletely struck area might show residual polish.

It appears to be frosted in texture (same as the rest of the devices).

[MorganMan]

Win 10 and latest Chrome version here and photos not showing.

[GoldFinger1969]

They're yours, or you have the chance to buy 'em ?

[FlyingAl]

On 7/1/2023 at 10:33 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

They're yours, or you have the chance to buy 'em ?

They are mine. 

Sorry about the photos not showing guys, it must be a failed upload. Please use the PCGS forums link for photos (the post is identical). 

[J P M]

On 7/2/2023 at 1:25 AM, FlyingAl said:

They are mine. 

Sorry about the photos not showing guys, it must be a failed upload. Please use the PCGS forums link for photos (the post is identical). 

I used the link ,Thanks . The coins are stunning , very nice set.

[Jason Abshier]

Awesome set to own , very nice set however I don’t think all of them will grade out PR67 … more like PR66 or PR65? It would interesting if you do send these in for grading ? Check back with us in the results … unless you choose to leave the set intact as it has been for all these years …

[FlyingAl]

I will remove the coins from the cello (removing the staples and letting the coins out the top of the sleeves) and send them to PCGS to be slabbed in series. I think that this is the best reason because:

 

1. The cello was never meant to be long term storage. The coins are in a questionable state of preservation, and it is unlikely how they will continue to fare in the years to come. 

2. It will protect the coins for decades to come. 

3. The set will still be together, with the original packaging. It will be instantly recognizable as an original set. 

4. The coins will be able to be viewed and referenced on a consistent basis (as well as better images can be taken). If the coins remain in the cello, the research value could be lowered (since the coins will not be easily accessible). I was asked today a few questions about characteristics of the coins, and it was very difficult to answer with the coins in the cello. Removing them I think is the best way to study them. 

 

Downsides would be the following:

 

1. Loss of the true "original set" as it came from the mint. Even this is debatable as the set is missing its box

 

@RWB - is there anything that you would suggest that I do before removing the coins research wise? Any research that needs to be done can still easily be done with the set removed from the cello in all reality. 

[RWB]

On 7/2/2023 at 10:27 AM, FlyingAl said:

is there anything that you would suggest that I do before removing the coins research wise? Any research that needs to be done can still easily be done with the set removed from the cello in all reality. 

Take good photos of the packaging so you (and others) have clear documentation on both packaging and the slabbed coins matching those in original cellophane. So-called "original" sets are abundant - sets that were actually kept together are unusual. (PCGS will not quibble about the eagle's leg.)

[FlyingAl]

On 7/2/2023 at 9:40 AM, RWB said:

Take good photos of the packaging so you (and others) have clear documentation on both packaging and the slabbed coins matching those in original cellophane. So-called "original" sets are abundant - sets that were actually kept together are unusual. (PCGS will not quibble about the eagle's leg.)

I have the photos from the thread here (and PCGS), and I also have a video so we should be good there. My goal is to preserve the coins as best as possible, while still maintaining the original set. 

[RWB]

Yeah, that's a quandary faced by anyone with deteriorating packaging -- when to act and what to do. Does the quarter haze remain and possibly alter the surface, or remove it and "change" the present appearance?

 

[Added aside -- Funny that the same thing happens with people.]

Edited July 2, 2023 by RWB

[Sandon]

    I saw the photos of this 1942 proof set on the PCGS forum.  I think that the cellophane is original and that the coins have likely been together since 1942, but the staples were almost certainly replaced at some point. The bluish toning on the silver coins is typical of coins that have been stored for a long time in these cellophane wrappers, although it may have resulted more from the tissue paper in the original box than from the cellophane. I hope that someone can post a set that includes the original square box and tissue paper in which these sets were originally shipped.

   I have a dim recollection from a coin show long ago (mid-1970s?) of seeing an original 1937 proof set in cellophane wrappers like these, which the dealer had allowed me to remove from the box and tissue paper.  Perhaps a few such sets still exist in the original packaging, probably forgotten about among heirlooms handed down to generations of non-collectors.

   In 2019 I examined an originally packaged 1954 proof set that was included in a decedent's estate. The date of the set was stamped in blue ink on the top of the box, and the plastic sleeves containing the coins were of a soft, pliable plastic instead of cellophane. Otherwise, the packaging was identical to what I recall for the 1936-42 era proof sets, including the tissue paper in which the sleeves were wrapped. The coins in the 1954 set were absolutely untoned and pristine notwithstanding their 65 years of storage in the original packaging.

[rrantique]

Awesome set Al

[FlyingAl]

I went ahead and took the plunge at got the set graded - it was the best choice to preserve the coins themselves and their value, both monetary and historical. Here are the results, and I would post images but they're a pain to do here. You can visit my thread over at Collectors Universe if you wish to see them again. This is now, to my knowledge, the finest original set from the 1936-1942 era. 

Half - PCGS PR68

Quarter - PCGS PR67+

Dime - PCGS PR67+

Nickel - PCGS PR67

Cent - PCGS PR66RD

Edited October 9, 2023 by FlyingAl

[RWB]

Nice find. Helps illustrate the practical advantages that come to those who read, examine, and learn more.

[J P M]

Congratulation on those wonderful grades, It makes me want to go out and buy a square box.

[zadok]

[zadok]

...duplicate post....

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by zadok
duplicate post...

[zadok]