Branch Mint documents from NARA 0

[RWB]

Those searching for Branch Mint information from the mid-1850s can now view approx 2,000 new pages on the subject on NNP. The volumes are Record Group 104, Entry 216, volumes 14, 15, and 16. These were scanned June 26 and 28 at College Park, Maryland. Here's a sample page image regarding Engraver James Longacre.

[GoldFinger1969]

I have been impressed with the continued workhorse-comments in the Bowers' LH DE book of Liberty Head Double Eagles in the late-1800's as America began to gain and then surpass Great Britain as the dominant economic and financial power.  San Francisco's Mint, in particular, was the up-and-comer Mint of the 1870's and beyond.

Anything talking about how they were increasingly being used in commerce would be of interest. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

On 6/30/2023 at 1:01 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Anything talking about how they were increasingly being used in commerce would be of interest.

From a coinage perspective, the mint's concerns about DE were connected to demand for export markets. Short reports, monthly coinage allocations, and NYAO transfers of refined bullion to Philadelphia for coinage and return to NYAO and common subjects. However, they rarely mention how the coins are used after leaving the NYAO or SF Mint for export. The closest thing might be monthly reports of gold Ex/Im by the Commerce Dept. (summaries are in most Annual Reports) and exchange of gold bars for coin at P, SF and NYAO. Users will have to search the available files.

Regarding Branch Mint volumes, as above, this series (E-216) includes a lot of Philadelphia Mint data which seems pout of place. I suspect the volumes were assembled in the 1950s/60s, and are thus not original context for the documents they contain. (I have not reviewed all the documents in detail -- it took 2 days to scan the pages.

Edited June 30, 2023 by RWB

[J P M]

Wow I thought my penmanship was bad .This is real hard to read.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/30/2023 at 9:45 AM, RWB said:

From a coinage perspective, the mint's concerns about DE were connected to demand for export markets.

I suspected as much.  My observation was drawn from the repeated comments starting about the 1880's in the book where Bowers mentions the increased quantity of DEs struck in SanFran and how that demand for U.S. gold coins was growing.  Different gold sources over the decades -- California, Colorado, Canada, Western states -- wherever they found it, it went to SanFran. 

It's a continuing theme that Bowers repeats and if his intent was to drill it into the reader's mind, it worked with me.  I actually like seeing certain themes or numbers repeated as it makes it easy to focus and follow trends.  Charts and tables in your book served the same purpose, plus the same chapter formats for each year (and the non-coinage sections, too).

Edited July 1, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[USAuPzlBxBob]

On 6/30/2023 at 7:53 PM, J P M said:

Wow I thought my penmanship was bad .This is real hard to read.

Only 21 states currently require cursive instruction, according to the National Education Association. At St. Edmund, they never stopped teaching it. And surprisingly, some kids are taking to it.   Jan 23, 2023  

(found the above when I queried the subject)

[ldhair]

I grew up having to learn both. Glad I did. 

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Looks like this has something to do with…

In the mid-1850s, Longacre was engaged by the Navy Department to design a medal to be presented to Captain Duncan Ingraham. Longacre produced the imagery used for the reverse; the obverse was by Assistant Engraver Cross. Although Bowers describes Longacre as having been "strictly ethical in the duties of his office", when the Treasury Department learned that Longacre accepted a $2,200 payment from the Navy for his work, they required that he repay the money under a federal law barring compensation of this kind.

[RWB]

On 7/1/2023 at 1:18 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

Looks like this has something to do with…

In the mid-1850s, Longacre was engaged by the Navy Department to design a medal to be presented to Captain Duncan Ingraham. Longacre produced the imagery used for the reverse; the obverse was by Assistant Engraver Cross. Although Bowers describes Longacre as having been "strictly ethical in the duties of his office", when the Treasury Department learned that Longacre accepted a $2,200 payment from the Navy for his work, they required that he repay the money under a federal law barring compensation of this kind.

This was later rescinded and Longacre got his regular pay and the commission. He did the Navy work on personal time, just as predecessors had done.

[GoldFinger1969]

I don't recall this Longacre money thing being mentioned in the LH DE.  I could have glossed over it, as it would certainly have been a 1 or 2-liner at most.  I'll try and double-check.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

So, since the above letter is difficult to decipher, is it indeed the beginning of the asking for the $2,200 back, which was rescinded later?

[RWB]

On 7/1/2023 at 5:56 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

So, since the above letter is difficult to decipher, is it indeed the beginning of the asking for the $2,200 back, which was rescinded later?

The director (Snowden) asks the Sec of Treas(Guthrie) of the director can have the Mint Treasurer pay Longacre the salary that was withheld, or if Treasury continues to object.

(One becomes accustomed to reading this stuff quickly - at least if anything is to be accomplished.)

Edited July 2, 2023 by RWB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/1/2023 at 11:09 PM, RWB said:

The director (Snowden) asks the Sec of Treas(Guthrie) of the director can have the Mint Treasurer pay Longacre the salary that was withheld, or if Treasury continues to object.

(One becomes accustomed to reading this stuff quickly - at least if anything is to be accomplished.)

Considering the shenanigans going on with the Mints and under-the-table payments, as long as this was properly disclosed, for legitimate work, on his own time.....I'm not sure why they were so fixated on it.

Different times, of course.  

 

[J P M]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:12 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Considering the shenanigans going on with the Mints and under-the-table payments, as long as this was properly disclosed, for legitimate work, on his own time.....I'm not sure why they were so fixated on it.

Different times, of course.  

 

Yes, In the old days, at many places when you worked for someone full time that was your job . Moonlighting was not allowed.  

[RWB]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:12 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Considering the shenanigans going on with the Mints and under-the-table payments, as long as this was properly disclosed, for legitimate work, on his own time.....I'm not sure why they were so fixated on it.

Different times, of course.  

 

Prior mint practice was to allow the Engraver and others to do private work on their private time - so long as it did not interfere with Mint work. Longacre started his job in the dog-house and remained there because of delays with the double eagle. He was not really hired to design and cut dies - he was there to touch up and sink dies from hubs prepared by the reducing lathe. The mint's insular approach to almost everything meant that main Treasury and the Auditors were largely unaware of past off-the-clock work by engravers and mint staff. There was also sensitivity about past medal contract fulfillment where all the work was on private time but used govt equipment, and was managed by the Chief Coiner.

Dir Snowden was strongly biased against Franklin Peale and anything that resembled the former coiner's medal making practices (as did the Navy medal) must have been automatically suspect by Snowden. The Sec Treas, Guthrie, had to depend on Snowden for information.

[RWB]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:12 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Considering the shenanigans going on with the Mints and under-the-table payments,

There were few "shenanigans or under-the-table payments" until the mid-1860s and early 1870s under James Pollock and a succession of coiners and employees who bought/sold coins to Philadelphia and NYC dealers. Much of the "standard story" is false or highly distorted. That will be dealt with in my book.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/2/2023 at 11:52 AM, RWB said:

There were few "shenanigans or under-the-table payments" until the mid-1860s and early 1870s under James Pollock and a succession of coiners and employees who bought/sold coins to Philadelphia and NYC dealers. Much of the "standard story" is false or highly distorted. That will be dealt with in my book.

Right, 1860's/1870's is when the stuff seemed to be repetitively mentioned in Bower's LH DE book.  A Philly dealer (name escapes me) seems to have been the main buyer.

[RWB]

A considerable part of our difficulty in examining 19th century coin practices is our distorted perception of "value." At the time most were made and distributed, the market value of  proofs, patterns and other non-standard items was only a little above face value. Coin collecting was a "fad" and those paying a premium for Master or Proof coins were "crazy" or "extravagant" in pursuit of shiny baubles.

Contemporaneity objections roamed around equitable distribution and not cost. (Medal making was a different situation.)

Edited July 4, 2023 by RWB

[zadok]

On 7/3/2023 at 5:23 PM, RWB said:

A considerable part of our difficulty in examining 19th century coin practices is our distorted perception of "value." T the time most were made and distributed the market value of  proofs, patterns and other non-standard items was only a little above face value. Coin collecting was a "fad" and those paying a premium for Master or Proof coins were "crazy" or "extravagant" in pursuit of shiny baubles.

Contemporaneity objections roamed around equitable distribution and not cost. (Medal making was a different situation.)

...n most of us today r still viewed as crazy for the prices we pay for coins we r not going to spend...one window i recall regarding "coin practices" or insights into collecting prices is to review the records of various collectors on their purchases, prices n dates of purchase if recorded...i recall buying a few coins from the eric newman collection where his original coin envelopes were included with the prices he paid e.g. gem liberty seated half dollars for $3.50 etc...i dont recall if he dated them as to when purchased....

[zadok]

On 7/4/2023 at 10:49 AM, zadok said:

...n most of us today r still viewed as crazy for the prices we pay for coins we r not going to spend...one window i recall regarding "coin practices" or insights into collecting prices is to review the records of various collectors on their purchases, prices n dates of purchase if recorded...i recall buying a few coins from the eric newman collection where his original coin envelopes were included with the prices he paid e.g. gem liberty seated half dollars for $3.50 etc...i dont recall if he dated them as to when purchased....

..."equitable distribution"...i recall hoghead mentioning several months ago an article he was reading bout collectors in 1939 complaining that they could not find any jefferson nickels for that year in their parts of the country, perhaps he can elaborate further....

[VKurtB]

On 7/3/2023 at 1:45 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Right, 1860's/1870's is when the stuff seemed to be repetitively mentioned in Bower's LH DE book.  A Philly dealer (name escapes me) seems to have been the main buyer.

It’s always shady business in Philly, ain’t it? Still is, right to this very day. There is no place in America more corrupt than Philly. It takes the whole rest of a largely honest state to even have a shot at balancing out Philly’s rot. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 7/5/2023 at 11:44 AM, VKurtB said:

It’s always shady business in Philly, ain’t it? Still is, right to this very day. There is no place in America more corrupt than Philly. It takes the whole rest of a largely honest state to even have a shot at balancing out Philly’s rot. 

...its a close race...philly, chicago, san fran n nyc...the 4 most cesspools in the US....

[VKurtB]

On 7/5/2023 at 10:53 AM, zadok said:

...its a close race...philly, chicago, san fran n nyc...the 4 most cesspools in the US....

Yeah, Chicago is in the running. 

[USAuPzlBxBob]

This is the best I can manage on this letter.
Exceedingly difficult, like doing a crossword puzzle…
 

                                           Mint of the United States

                                            Philadelphia, August 25th, 1856

Sir,

                  In   the  “Act.   making   appropriations   for    certain    civil
  expenses of the government" public No. 55 — approved August 18. 1856,
     I   notice      one     appropriation     of   $ 2,200.   is  made  to  meet
      the  expense  incurred    under    the   Contract    of  the Secretary of
       the   Navy   for the  “Ingraham Medal”.      As     this     is       intended,
        I   presume,   to     meet     the     difficulty   arising   out   of   the
         payments     of     a     like   amount     to     Mr.    J.  B.  Longacre
          whose  salary,  by  your    letter  of  the  25th  of  June  last,
            was    directed    to    be   withheld,      I      have   now   to   ask
            whether   the   Treasurer   of the   Mint   may   be  authorized
            to      pay     Mr.      Longacre     the     arrearage       and     future
           installments     of     salary,      or       whether        the       prohibition
           as    stated   in    the    letter   refund   to     mint     continue    to
           be    enforced.
                                                                       I have the honor to be
                                                                                with great respect
                                                                                Your faithful servant,
Hono.  James  Guthrie                                      James   Ross   Snowden
  Secretary of the Treasury                                       Director of the Mint
                      Washington    City

[RWB]

Very Good!