A neat chopmarked trade dollar

[Tradedollarnut]

I just imaged this for the Registry across the street:

 

 

It is the finest chopmarked trade dollar I've ever seen. It's graded MS64 (chopped) by PCGS and without the chop would be the second finest example of that date in existance!

[Hoot]

That's an amazing coin TDN. Thanks for sharing. What can you tell us about the chopmark? Where was it made and who made it? How is it that such a coin made it to a merchant, I presume across the ocean, and back to the U.S. without more substantial wear?

 

Hoot

[Tradedollarnut]

Mark: I was hoping that Shiroh could chime in on what the chopmark means. The reverse has a single chopmark on the eagle's breast, but not as distinct.

 

The coin is amazing - the color and luster don't shine through very well in the picture. I've seen each and every 74CC NGC and PCGS in MS65 and above and can state without a doubt this would be the second finest without the chop. That makes this a $24,000 chop! Ouch!

[paigow_johnny]

TDN...this is a question asked out of ignorance of trade dollars. How can chop marked Trades be graded in any state of MS. If they're chopped...doesn't it mean they had to have been circulated

[Wihlborg]

paigow_johnny,

 

When a coin is graded mint state it does not necessarily mean that the coin never circulated, just that there is no evidence of wear.

 

I was not aware that chop marked coins were being certified, but I guess that the chop marks are taken into account for what they are and the coin assigned a grade dependent upon the amount of wear.

 

John

 

[Tradedollarnut]

I agree - they are graded mint state - not uncirculated. If a coin went from bag to merchant to collector, it's still mint state.

 

Different grading companies grade chopped marked coins in different ways. PCGS is assigning a numerical grade ignoring the chopmark. NCS is assigning a details grade, with no differentation between MS states. ANACS assigns a details and net grade.

 

Personally, I agree with PCGS on MS coins as I frequently see huge differences in quality between MS chopmarked coins. I really think that NCS needs to add the choice and gem qualifiers for MS chopmarked coins - they DO exist!

[paigow_johnny]

I'm not a trade collector, but if I ever do...I like TDNs approach about looking for nice chopmarked ones. Think of the stories those coins could tell

[gmarguli]

Personally, I agree with PCGS on MS coins as I frequently see huge differences in quality between MS chopmarked coins. I really think that NCS needs to add the choice and gem qualifiers for MS chopmarked coins - they DO exist!

 

Or perhaps NGC needs to start grading chopmarked Trade dollars and other chopmarked coins.

[EVillageProwler]

At a small, local auction, one of the lots was a gorgeous ChAU 1855-S 50c with, I believe, a nice chop obv and a nice chop rev.

 

I know who bought it, and I believe I was the underbidder.

 

Sigh... The competition for nice coins is pretty fierce.

 

EVP

 

[Wihlborg]

Greg,

 

I believe chop marked coins were never certified before because they were considered de-faced, the same as holed coins. Technically they are de-faced.

 

I am not really sure how I feel about this. A coin like TDN’s is a beautiful specimen and the chop marks are part of the history of these coins, but what about other rare coins that have been holed or de-faced over the years?

 

Should these be graded and placed in the same holders as their non de-faced counterparts based only on the amount of wear they show?

 

I think they should be certified and given a grade based on wear, but put into a holder with a label that lists the overall grade and other details. Maybe something like this, MS-63 / chop marked or MS-60 / holed.

 

What do you think?

 

John

 

[gmarguli]

From what I have read, chopmarks are considered a normal part of circulation for these coins. I guess these marks would be similar to teeth marks on US gold coins. I don't see any reason why "historical damage" should not be allowed into a slab.

 

I agree that MS64/Chopmarked is the way these should be graded and that is currently what PCGS is doing. NCS is just giving the "Unc grade" to these coins and noting the chopmarked.

[Coinosaurus]

Something I've always wondered about chops......and countermarks for that matter......wouldn't it be rather easy to counterfeit something like this? How does one authenticate a chop or countermark as contemporary and not a modern "counterfeit"? Or does chopping always devalue a TD so that no one would ever do this?

[Tradedollarnut]

I would say that it almost always lowers the value. The few instances I can think of where the value might be increased with a spurious chop are:

 

1) I have an 1877CC in MS62 with a single reverse chop that has flattened the obverse in a distracting manner. A chop placed in the flat spot would look quite nice and remove the distraction, potentially increasing the value.

 

2) A beautiful coin with engraving or a hole or a huge pit could possibly be chopped in such a manner as to hide the problem, potentially increasing the value of the coin.

 

3) A low grade trade dollar that is rare with chops could be chopped potentially raising the value slightly. But not much.

[PQSeated]

TDN, how can you accurately discern real chopmarks from fakes? The chopmarks were made by man in quite a crude way really. Wouldn't it be easy to make chopmarks? Or would it be a disadvantage, because it would lower the price?