Grading error..by NGC 1 1

[PastorKen]

I just wanted to say I'm not looking for this coin to be rare or valuable I'm not looking to make money off it I just wanted some advice on what I should do with it 

[PastorKen]

One last thing I'll say I first registered this coin back on April 7th ...so today isn't the first time I've been in the forum on this specific coin 

[EagleRJO]

On 5/31/2023 at 4:12 PM, PastorKen said:

I read it somewhere in the ngc grading system about how they grade coins if I mistakenly read it I'm sorry but I read it as a 69 yes can have defects but they shouldn't be visible without some magnification 

No, the NGC standards (https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/grading-scale/) for an MS69 are "a fully struck coin with nearly imperceptible imperfections" as previously noted.  The magnification you are referring to only applies to an MS70 at 5x without any imperfections.  The circled areas in the second pic you posted are magnified, and if you look at the full coin pic posted you can barely even make out there is a bag mark.

On 5/31/2023 at 4:17 PM, PastorKen said:

... I just wanted some advice on what I should do with it 

As many have said, just leave it, unless you want a perfect bullion coin then sell it and put that towards an MS70 bullion coin.  But I would just take that money and buy a collectible Proof ASE.  From the mint it's about the same you would likely pay for an MS70 bullion coin on the market, and imo the proof coins are much nicer.  That's just me though.

https://catalog.usmint.gov/american-eagle-2023-one-ounce-silver-proof-coin-23EA.html?cgid=american-eagle-coins#start=1

[PastorKen]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:03 PM, EagleRJO said:

No, the NGC standards (https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/grading-scale/) for an MS69 are "a fully struck coin with nearly imperceptible imperfections" as previously noted.  The magnification you are referring to only applies to an MS70 at 5x without any imperfections.  The circled areas in the second pic you posted are magnified, and if you look at the full coin pic posted you can barely even make out there is a bag mark.

As many have said, just leave it, unless you want a perfect bullion coin then sell it and put that towards an MS70 bullion coin.  But I would just take that money and buy a collectible Proof ASE.  From the mint it's about the same you would likely pay for an MS70 bullion coin on the market, and imo the proof coins are much nicer.  That's just me though.

https://catalog.usmint.gov/american-eagle-2023-one-ounce-silver-proof-coin-23EA.html?cgid=american-eagle-coins#start=1

I recently got a new 23 and will all the new design coins have the M mint mark I have a 21 t2 and a new 23 both with the W mint mark most older ones don't the other eagles I got are in capsules but very nice BU condition....but shortly after talking to you my coin disappeared from the registry  why  I called them right away and I posted what I was told 

[PastorKen]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:23 PM, PastorKen said:

I recently got a new 23 and will all the new design coins have the M mint mark I have a 21 t2 and a new 23 both with the W mint mark most older ones don't the other eagles I got are in capsules but very nice BU condition....but shortly after talking to you my coin disappeared from the registry  why  I called them right away and I posted what I was told 

I'm just a amateur coin collector..grade makes no difference to me like I said before I'm 46 I'm a ordained minister and been saving coins here and there most all.my life but the Morgan dollars are what really got me interested I only have several and recently got some eagles to add I like the old design better imo

[PastorKen]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:27 PM, PastorKen said:

I'm just a amateur coin collector..grade makes no difference to me like I said before I'm 46 I'm a ordained minister and been saving coins here and there most all.my life but the Morgan dollars are what really got me interested I only have several and recently got some eagles to add I like the old design better imo

I'm sorry the grade yes the one graded coin I got I just wanted to make sure there wasn't really anything I could do or not with it as in is it an error on them or do I just sell it off 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:29 PM, PastorKen said:

I'm sorry the grade yes the one graded coin I got I just wanted to make sure there wasn't really anything I could do or not with it as in is it an error on them or do I just sell it off 

Sometimes we just have to accept we got burned or overpaid.  Happens to ALL of us (well, MOST of us  ).  Learn from the modern ASE so that if you ever spend mid-3 figures or even 4-figures on a Morgan SD, you get a good deal.

Don't be afraid to run something by us here. 

 

[PastorKen]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:49 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Sometimes we just have to accept we got burned or overpaid.  Happens to ALL of us (well, MOST of us  ).  Learn from the modern ASE so that if you ever spend mid-3 figures or even 4-figures on a Morgan SD, you get a good deal.

Don't be afraid to run something by us here. 

 

 

On 5/31/2023 at 5:49 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Sometimes we just have to accept we got burned or overpaid.  Happens to ALL of us (well, MOST of us  ).  Learn from the modern ASE so that if you ever spend mid-3 figures or even 4-figures on a Morgan SD, you get a good deal.

Don't be afraid to run something by us here. 

 

Tbh the coin in question I guess I paid just 35 for I got it with a few silver Franklin halves and it was 2019 I believe but the Morgans I bought I had checked like this coin and they're all genuine but I got my Morgans from a very fair dealer out of Chicago I got 4 off him for just under 200 and they're all in very nice condition I'd say very close to AU 1884-O 1885 ..1921-S and a 2nd 1921

[PastorKen]

On 5/31/2023 at 6:03 PM, PastorKen said:

 

Tbh the coin in question I guess I paid just 35 for I got it with a few silver Franklin halves and it was 2019 I believe but the Morgans I bought I had checked like this coin and they're all genuine but I got my Morgans from a very fair dealer out of Chicago I got 4 off him for just under 200 and they're all in very nice condition I'd say very close to AU 1884-O 1885 ..1921-S and a 2nd 1921

Also I hope I can continue to ask questions here ...lol

[VKurtB]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:04 PM, PastorKen said:

Also I hope I can continue to ask questions here ...lol

Always.

 

[powermad5000]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:04 PM, PastorKen said:

Also I hope I can continue to ask questions here ...lol

You can ALWAYS ask questions here. Most of the responses you get are from members who have been at this for decades and are savvy when it comes to the financial end of the hobby. Just remember that sometimes you have to take some responses you get with a grain of salt.

[PastorKen]

On 5/31/2023 at 7:39 PM, powermad5000 said:

You can ALWAYS ask questions here. Most of the responses you get are from members who have been at this for decades and are savvy when it comes to the financial end of the hobby. Just remember that sometimes you have to take some responses you get with a grain of salt.

I was hoping for that but the fact my coin disappeared from the registry I didn't like ..there's nothing wrong with it as far as a genuine NGC graded coin it's been registered as long as I've had it but I hope it's readded tomorrow as they told me ...I haven't received any emails from them yet so far either..but I hope this doesn't turn into a process just because I may have worded something wrong  but thanks for everyone's help I know what I'll do once it's been put back into the registry 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 5/31/2023 at 7:39 PM, powermad5000 said:

Just remember that sometimes you have to take some responses you get with a grain of salt.

Sometimes I run out of salt, is a grain of peper or sugar or some other condiment OK ? 

[VKurtB]

On 5/31/2023 at 9:21 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Sometimes I run out of salt, is a grain of peper or sugar or some other condiment OK ? 

Heinz Ketchup packets.

[PastorKen]

On 5/31/2023 at 10:21 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Sometimes I run out of salt, is a grain of peper or sugar or some other condiment OK ? 

I got grains of gold and silver...lol

[PastorKen]

On 5/31/2023 at 4:05 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

So, right now we're waiting for tomorrow? (when NGC said they'd check on it)

Let's assume the coin does come back onto NGC Verification.  If that happens, and the coin was over-graded, NGC owes you something… that's what their guarantee provides… compensation.

I just spoke again to NGC ...the website is down for looking up coins they said ...but they CAN TRACE MY COIN back to it's original graded date so It will be put back up ..now what right 

Edited June 1, 2023 by PastorKen

[PastorKen]

On 6/1/2023 at 9:55 AM, PastorKen said:

I just spoke again to NGC ...the website is down for looking up coins they said ...but they CAN TRACE MY COIN back to it's original graded date so It will be put back up ..now what right 

It's now back in the registry....

[PastorKen]

On 5/31/2023 at 4:05 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

So, right now we're waiting for tomorrow? (when NGC said they'd check on it)

Let's assume the coin does come back onto NGC Verification.  If that happens, and the coin was over-graded, NGC owes you something… that's what their guarantee provides… compensation.

Bob I'd actually like to know what you were thinking I can do when you said if they put it back up because it IS GENUINE...what am I entitled to because of their guarantee..?

Edited June 2, 2023 by PastorKen

[Coinbuf]

I always thought that men of the cloth practiced forgiveness, guess I was wrong.

[Sandon]

On 6/2/2023 at 1:53 PM, PastorKen said:

.what am I entitled to because of their guarantee..?

 This is the remedy stated for the NGC Guarantee. See NGC Guarantee | Coin Certification Guarantee | NGC (ngccoin.com):

An owner of an NGC-certified Coin (“Owner”) who believes the Coin is overgraded or not genuine shall submit it for evaluation under NGC’s free “Appearance Review” service. It is not necessary to be an NGC member to submit a Coin for Appearance Review.

To submit a Coin for Appearance Review, Owner shall furnish Guarantor with all supporting documents, including receipts, that Owner’s claim relies on. If Guarantor determines, in its sole reasonable opinion, that Owner is entitled to a remedy under this Guarantee, Guarantor will offer a remedy as set forth below.

Guarantor is committed in all cases to proposing a fair and reasonable remedy. If Owner does not accept such remedy, the Coin will be removed from the NGC holder and returned to Owner along with a payment of the grading fees originally paid to grade the Coin and any reasonable shipping expenses incurred in returning the Coin for correction. In no event will (i) a Coin that has been determined to be not genuine be returned in an NGC holder; (ii) a Coin that has been determined to be overgraded or incorrectly described be returned encapsulated with an incorrect NGC label; or (iii) an “Authentic Hand-Signed” label be returned with an autograph that has been found to be not genuine.

Remedies for Coins that are Not Genuine or are Overgraded. If Guarantor determines, in its sole reasonable opinion, that (a) the Coin (other than an NGC Ancients-graded Coin) is not genuine or (b) that the correct grade for the Coin is lower than the one originally assigned, Guarantor will offer one of the three remedies described below. The choice of remedy will be made by Guarantor in its sole discretion, and the remedies are subject to the further limitations set forth below. Current Fair Market Value is determined solely by Guarantor as described in each of the listed remedies and the “Fair Market Value” paragraph that follows.

1.  Guarantor shall (a) return the Coin to Owner encapsulated with a label indicating the newly established correct (lower) grade and (b) pay to Owner the difference between the current Fair Market Value of an accurately graded Coin at the original incorrect (higher) grade and the current Fair Market Value of the Coin at the newly established correct (lower) grade.

2.  Alternatively, Guarantor may purchase the Coin from Owner. Guarantor will pay the lesser of (i) the Declared Value of the Coin as stated by Owner on the submission form for Appearance Review; (ii) the Fair Market Value of an accurately graded, genuine Coin at the original incorrect grade; or (iii) the amount actually paid for the Coin by Owner in an actual arm's length transaction, plus any postage, shipping or other incidental expenses incurred by Owner in submitting the Coin for Appearance Review service. If Owner was also the original submitter of the Coin for certification, then the compensation, if any, will not exceed the Declared Value of the Coin either when originally submitted for certification or when submitted for Appearance Review.

3.  Alternatively, Guarantor may retain the not genuine or overgraded Coin and provide to Owner in its place an equivalent Coin that is genuine and has the same grade as originally assigned to the Coin.

   It would not be worth pursuing this remedy in this case.  Your 2009 Silver Eagle was arguably (not objectively) overgraded at MS 69 but clearly grades a bare minimum of MS 67 ("only a few imperfections") and in my opinion would be solid at MS 68 as having "miniscule imperfections". (The only defect I can see on your photos is the mark on Liberty's hip. I see no scratch or other defect at the other area you circled at the bottom of Liberty's skirt.)   A 2009 Silver Eagle lists $38.50 in MS 67, $42 in MS 68, and $50 in MS 69 on the NGC Price Guide. It lists $35.50 even in MS 60.  Assuming that NGC agreed with you "in its sole reasonable opinion", you would receive compensation with a net value of no more than $50 under whichever of the three listed remedies NGC were to choose. It just isn't worth spending one's time over an arguable difference in no more than $15 in retail market value.

   I recommend that if you don't like the coin you sell it, allowing the buyer to inspect the coin to his or her satisfaction and deciding whether or not to pay your asking price. If you bought the coin some years ago, you won't lose much and may even make a small profit.

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Sandon
add omitted words and punctuation

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Send it to NGC for Appearance Review… uninsured, cheapest postage available… $20?

They will handle the process from there, and send the coin newly encapsulated, with payment for difference in value (their grading error) back to you.

The coin will avail itself to an interesting Registry "comments" writeup by you… something to consider.

Good luck.

Bob

[PastorKen]

On 6/2/2023 at 2:15 PM, Coinbuf said:

I always thought that men of the cloth practiced forgiveness, guess I was wrong.

We do ...I started this thread by acknowledging I'm just an amateur collector and asked a question because I wanted a better understanding on their policies and ultimately what my choices are ...my question has been answered but don't disrespect a MINISTER...I'm NOT a Reverend there's a difference..

[J P M]

On 5/31/2023 at 10:22 AM, VKurtB said:

Close, but not quite, @J P M. You are showing -114. The OP’s is -144.

Sorry,  I  Guess these old eyes are needing  new glasses 

[CIII]

When you Do sell the coin, print this thread and include it as provenance for your now famous coin!

[PastorKen]

On 6/3/2023 at 8:52 AM, Tigerbait said:

When you Do sell the coin, print this thread and include it as provenance for your now famous coin!

Like I keep saying I was only asking for advice...I never had any monetary interest....I only wanted some "professional" advice and I got what I needed ...but no I can't print out this thread infact I might as well delete it ..I said I got the information I need ....should I post a few old S mint 60's pennies ...I just found...found some error quarters a couple WB SBA's. And a S mint 79 in circulation..smh Also found a single 2019 W mint quarter..also some recent eagles I got which got me to notice the scratch on my 09 but they're very nice BU coins in capsules but I recently got the 2021 set ...T1 and T2 and a new 2023 but so far my 2 T2's have the W mint mark which means they're early release coins..? I've said before I also got 4 really nice Morgans 1884-O 1885 1921-S and a 2nd 1921... aside from the Morgans and eagles finding those In normal change ain't bad ...I've stopped using any quarter minted since 99 I keep everyone I get because there are so many errors out there but I try to look at them and research the coins I have a jeweler triplet and a 60× magnification piece with a blacklight and bright led light sorry to go on but I got several coins that could be errors too ...upgraded..lol

[ldhair]

On 6/3/2023 at 8:15 AM, PastorKen said:

Like I keep saying I was only asking for advice...I never had any monetary interest....I only wanted some "professional" advice and I got what I needed ...but no I can't print out this thread infact I might as well delete it ..I said I got the information I need ....should I post a few old S mint 60's pennies ...I just found...found some error quarters a couple WB SBA's. And a S mint 79 in circulation..smh Also found a single 2019 W mint quarter..also some recent eagles I got which got me to notice the scratch on my 09 but they're very nice BU coins in capsules but I recently got the 2021 set ...T1 and T2 and a new 2023 but so far my 2 T2's have the W mint mark which means they're early release coins..? I've said before I also got 4 really nice Morgans 1884-O 1885 1921-S and a 2nd 1921... aside from the Morgans and eagles finding those In normal change ain't bad ...I've stopped using any quarter minted since 99 I keep everyone I get because there are so many errors out there but I try to look at them and research the coins I have a jeweler triplet and a 60× magnification piece with a blacklight and bright led light sorry to go on but I got several coins that could be errors too ...upgraded..lol

Hope you decide to hang out here. This may seem like a tough crowd but it's really all about being sure that the correct information is being posted. We may argue but at the end the truth is there. Feel free to post about your other coins. 

[PastorKen]

On 6/3/2023 at 9:59 AM, ldhair said:

Hope you decide to hang out here. This may seem like a tough crowd but it's really all about being sure that the correct information is being posted. We may argue but at the end the truth is there. Feel free to post about your other coins. 

I will...can always use advice...

[Just Bob]

On 6/2/2023 at 1:15 PM, Coinbuf said:

I always thought that men of the cloth practiced forgiveness, guess I was wrong.

Anyone can be ordained as a minister. It once took many hours of study and cost hundreds of dollars. Now, it is free and costs about a minute of your time and a click of a mouse. Conan OBrian, Lady Gaga, and Dewayne Johnson are all ordained ministers, just to mention a few.

[VKurtB]

On 6/3/2023 at 10:05 AM, Just Bob said:

Anyone can be ordained as a minister. It once took many hours of study and cost hundreds of dollars. Now, it is free and costs about a minute of your time and a click of a mouse. Conan OBrian, Lady Gaga, and Dewayne Johnson are all ordained ministers, just to mention a few.

And I’ve officiated at a funeral in 2019. It was June and everyone was booked with weddings. So I prepared well and everything was fine.

[PastorKen]

On 6/3/2023 at 11:05 AM, Just Bob said:

Anyone can be ordained as a minister. It once took many hours of study and cost hundreds of dollars. Now, it is free and costs about a minute of your time and a click of a mouse. Conan OBrian, Lady Gaga, and Dewayne Johnson are all ordained ministers, just to mention a few.

Yea I never said I had a Parrish but I got ordained back in 2014 ... because I had personal issues and felt I had hit bottom and I needed to turn over a new leaf so I wanted to change my life I did it for me not nessarily anyone else